Jul 13, 2023 P&amp;Z Commission

OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO MY LEFT ON

[4. Review of meeting protocol.]

THE WALL.

IT IS OUR MEETING PROTOCOL IF YOU WANNA FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH HOW WE CONDUCT OUR MEETINGS.

NEXT UP IS CITIZEN

[5. Citizen Comments: Three (3) minutes allowed per speaker. [Please turn in speaker request form before the meeting begins.]]

COMMENTS.

THESE ARE FOR COMMENTS THAT ARE FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ON AN ITEM THAT IS NOT ON THE AGENDA? SEEING NONE, WE'LL MOVE ON TO

[ CONSENT AGENDA: ACTION]

CONSENT AGENDA.

THIS IS ITEM SIX THROUGH 13, WHICH CAN BE PASSED BY ONE MOTION UNLESS A COMMISSIONER CHOOSES TO PULL ONE OFF FOR SEPARATE CONSIDERATION.

THIS IS AN ACTION ITEM.

ITEM NUMBER 14, AND COMMISSIONER OLIVER WILL BE, UH, RECUSING HIMSELF.

SECOND.

MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER COSGROVE, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER OLIVER.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

MOVING ON TO PUBLIC HEARING

[15. Conduct a Public Hearing and consider action on Subdivision Case FP-22-0044 and Variance Case VA-23-0013 to approve the Sarita Valley Short Form Final Plat and Variance on one parcel of land approximately 5.403 acres ± in size, more particularly described by Williamson Central Appraisal District Parcel R512374; generally located north east of Ronald W Reagan Blvd. and Sarita Dr., Leander, Williamson County, Texas. Discuss and consider action on Subdivision Case FP-22-0044 and Variance Case VA-23-0013 as described above. Staff Presentation Applicant Presentation Open Public Hearing Close Public Hearing Discussion Consider Action]

SO LET THE RECORD SHOW HE HAS LEFT THE DIOCESE.

UH, MICHAEL CHENOWSKI, PLANNING DEPARTMENT.

STAFF PRESENTATION.

EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

MICHAEL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO TURN IT ON ANYMORE.

IT'S ALWAYS ON.

OH, REALLY? YEAH.

UH, SO ARTICLE ONE, SECTION SIX A OF THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE INCLUDES REQUIREMENTS THAT APPLY TO ALL SUBDIVISIONS OF LAND WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE CITY.

UH, THIS RELATES TO LAND PREVIOUSLY SUBDIVIDED OR PLATTED, UH, INTO TRACKS, LOTS, SITES OR PARCELS, UH, WHICH THE SUBDIVISION WAS SUBJECT TO, BUT NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH CITY OR COUNTY ORDINANCES.

IN EFFECT AT THE TIME OF SUCH SUBDIVIDING AND PLATTING.

UH, THE EXISTING LOT WAS ILLEGALLY SUBDIVIDED BY MEETS AND BOUNDS, BUT IT'S STILL CONSIDERED PART OF THE SAME SUBDIVISION AS THE PARCEL AT THE HARD CORNER OF CORNER OF RONALD REAGAN AND CERITA VALLEY.

UH, THIS APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE TO ALLOW THIS PARCEL TO COMPLETE THE PLATTING PROCESS WITHOUT INCLUDING, UH, THE ASSOCIATED CORNER PARCEL, WHICH ARE CURRENTLY UNDER SEPARATE OWNERSHIP.

UH, SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW IS PLATTING THIS, UH, LOT AS COMMERCIAL.

UH, THIS OTHER LOT IS THE VARIANCE REQUEST.

SO RIGHT NOW THAT'S THE CERTA VALLEY, UH, MONUMENT SIGN FOR THEIR ENTRANCE TO THEIR SUBDIVISION.

UH, THE APPLICANT CONTACTED THE CERTA VALLEY HOA, UH, AND THEY WERE NOT INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING IN THE PLAT.

SO THIS APPLICATION WAS, UH, AND THIS APPLICATION WAS PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED FOR THE LAST P AND Z ON JUNE 22ND.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAD TO CANCEL THAT MEETING DUE TO THE POWER OUTAGE, UH, AT CITY HALL.

UH, SO THIS SHORT FORM FINAL PLAT INCLUDES ONE COMMERCIAL LOT AND STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE FINAL PLAT AND VARIANCE.

I'LL BE AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE AN APPLICANT PRESENTATION? OKAY, WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.

I HAVE ONE CARD, TOM MITCHELL.

PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS WHEN YOU GET TO THE MICROPHONE AND YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES.

MY NAME IS TOM MITCHELL.

MY ADDRESS IS 1 0 0 9, EXCUSE ME, PURPLE MOORE.

UH, WE ENTER 78 6 4 1 ALL LIVE IN CITA VALLEY, UM, THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

AND I'M ALSO A BOARD MEMBER OF OUR HOA.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF, SINCE THE APPLICANT IS NOT HERE, THAT I CAN ASK ANY QUESTIONS CUZ I'M ASSUMING IF THEY SUBMITTED, UH, SOME KIND OF PRELIMINARY PLAT, UH, HOW THEY'RE, WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO DEVELOP AND HOW THEY'RE GONNA DEVELOP IT, OR NO, WE CAN'T ANSWER QUESTIONS.

THIS IS JUST YOUR TIME TO SPEAK TO US, AND THEN ONCE THE PUBLIC HEARING IS OVER, WE'LL START ASKING QUESTIONS OF THE STAFF.

SO THE APPLICANT IS NOT HERE? CORRECT.

AND DOWN RONALD REAGAN NOW ANYWAY, WE'RE CONCERNED IF IT WOULD COME IN OFF OF CERTA, UH, DRIVE.

SO OUR CONCERN IS, UH, KIND OF IN THREE AREAS.

ONE, OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T KNOW IF, UM, CITY OF LEANDER HAS DONE A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY, UH, FOR THIS PARTICULAR, UM, DEVELOPMENT, BUT WE'RE OBVIOUSLY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, WHERE, WHERE THE ENTRY WOULD BE IF IT'S JUST ON RONALD REAGAN, UH, SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH.

EVERYBODY KNOWS HOW MUCH TRAFFIC THERE IS UP

[00:05:01]

THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM.

UM, ALSO WHAT THE APPLICANT'S THOUGHTS ARE AS FAR AS, UM, MAINTAINING, UM, I DON'T KNOW THE, UM, TRYING TO THINK OF THE WORD NOW, TAKING CARE OF THE MOWING AND EVERYTHING ELSE ALONG.

WE HAVE SOME COMMON AREA UP THERE AS WELL.

AND ONE, MY HOUSE.

SO I'M ASKING FOR MYSELF AND MY SIX OR SEVEN NEIGHBORS.

MY HOUSE IS ONE OF THESE RIGHT HERE IN THE, UH, KIND OF HIGH SHAPED AREA.

AND SO I'M WONDERING IF IT'S, UH, BEEN TAKEN INTO ANY KIND OF CONSIDERATION, SOME KIND OF SETBACK, UM, THAT THE APPLICANT DEVELOPER IS GONNA DO CONCERNING THE HOUSES, UH, STARTING AT THAT ONE CORNER ALL THE WAY BACK AROUND TO CERITA VALLEY, UH, OR CERTA DRIVE, IF THAT'S, THIS MAY BE TOO EARLY FOR Y'ALL TO GET INTO, BUT THAT'S SOME OF OUR CONCERNS.

SO WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT, UM, OBVIOUSLY THE ENTRYWAY.

WE GOT 38 SECONDS ABOUT THE ENTRYWAY, WHETHER IT'S JUST GONNA BE STRICTLY RONALD REAGAN, NOT OFFICER RITA VALLEY, WHICH IS REALLY TOUGH, MAINTAINING THE EXISTING, UM, UM, TAKING CARE OF ALL THE TREES AND SHRUBS AND IF THEY'RE GONNA BE DOING SOME OF THAT.

AND TYING IN.

ONE OTHER QUESTION WAS, UH, THERE'LL BE TYING IN THE EXISTING, UM, SIDEWALK THAT WE HAVE ALONG RONALD REAGAN INTO THE SIDEWALK THAT WE HAVE ALONG, UM, OUR MEDIAN ON CERITA DRIVE.

SO THOSE ARE MY MAIN QUESTIONS.

APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? SEEING NONE, WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND ENTER INTO DISCUSSION.

COMMISSIONER COSGROVE? WELL, I THINK THAT THE SPEAKER RAISES SOME, SOME VALID QUESTIONS.

WE'RE WE'RE, WE'RE SIMPLY, UM, APPROVING YOUR VARIANCE TO PLAT A LOT.

THOSE THINGS ARE, WE'RE NOT THERE YET, SO, UM, I'M GOOD.

I'M GOOD AND I'M GOOD WITH IT.

AS WELL AS COMMISSIONER COSGROVE MENTIONED, WE'RE JUST NOT AT THE POINT OF ADDRESSING ALL OF THOSE ISSUES, BUT THEY WILL HAVE TO MEET ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF OUR CODE, YOU KNOW, REGARDING THOSE ISSUES.

OKAY, THIS IS AN ACTION ITEM.

SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MOSS.

I SECOND, I'LL SECOND.

MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER COSGROVE.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

WE CAN ASK, UH, COMMISSIONER OLIVER TO RE-ENTER THE MEETING.

WE'LL HOLD JUST A MOMENT FOR HIM.

OKAY, WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER 17.

DISCUSS AND CONSIDER ACTION ON TREE REMOVAL CASE TRP 23 DASH 0 0 1 6 REGARDING, OH, EXCUSE ME, I'M SORRY I DIDN'T WRONG LINE.

SORRY, .

I'M MOVING AHEAD TOO FAR.

CONDUCT

[14. Conduct a Public Hearing and consider action regarding Zoning Case Z-23-0076 to amend the current zoning of Interim SFR-1-B (Single-Family Rural) to adopt the Highway 29 Commercial Minor PUD (Planned Unit Development) with the GC-3-A (General Commercial) base zoning district on one parcel of land approximately 53.23 acres ± in size, more particularly described by Williamson Central Appraisal District Parcel R032262; and generally located approximately 1,500 feet to the west of the intersection of SH 29 and Ronald W Reagan Blvd, on the south side of SH 29, Leander, Williamson County, Texas. Discuss and consider action regarding Zoning Case Z-23-0076 as described above. Staff Presentation Applicant Presentation Open Public Hearing Close Public Hearing Discussion Consider Action]

A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDER ACTION REGARDING ZONING CASE Z 23 0 0 7 6.

TO AMEND THE CURRENT ZONING OF INTERIM S SFR ONE B TO ADOPT THE HIGHWAY 29 COMMERCIAL MINOR POD WITH THE GC THREE, A BASE ZONING DISTRICT ON ONE PARCEL LAND, APPROXIMATELY 53 ACRES IN SIZE, MORE PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED BY WILLIAMSON CENTRAL APPRAISAL DISTRICT PARCEL R 0 3 2 2 6 2.

AND GENERALLY LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 1500 FEET TO THE WEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF SH 29 AND RONALD REAGAN BOULEVARD ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF SH 29.

LEANDER WILLIAMSON COUNTY, TEXAS STAFF PRESENTATION.

THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS.

MICHAEL JANOWSKI, PLANNING DEPARTMENT.

UH, SO THIS IS THE FIRST STEP IN THE ZONING PROCESS.

THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED A REQUEST TO CHANGE THE DESIGNATED ZONING DISTRICT OF THEIR PROPERTY IN ORDER TO DEVELOP A MIX OF COMMERCIAL, UH, TO INCLUDE RETAIL, OFFICE, WAREHOUSE, AND LIGHT MANUFACTURING.

UH, THE MINOR PUD UH, SPECIAL CONSIDERATION, THIS MINOR PUD ALLOWS FOR THE ADDITION OF MINOR INDUSTRIAL USES, UH, WHILE PROHIBITING USES THAT WOULD NOT BE DESIRABLE AT THIS LOCATION.

UH, THE MINOR INDUSTRIAL USES INCLUDE FLEX RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT OFF AND OFFICE SPACE.

UH, THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT PROVIDES ADDITIONAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE AREA, UH, WITH AN A AESTHETICALLY ATTRACTIVE AND, UH, AND STILL CAN PROVIDE A RETAIL COMPONENT.

UM,

[00:10:01]

SO SOME OF THE SURROUNDING AREAS, UH, INCLUDE, UH, TO THE SOUTHEAST OVER HERE, THE, UH, SOUTH HIGHWAY 29 AND RONALD REAGAN PUD, WHICH INCLUDES COMMERCIAL AND UH, MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT.

UH, TO THE NORTH IS THE OUTSIDE OF THE LEANDER E T J AND THEN JUST TO THE WEST OF IT.

UH, OVER HERE THIS RESIDENTIAL PIECE IS, UH, THE BONNET, UH, SUBDIVISION.

UH, SO THIS PROPERTY WAS ANNEXED IN 2007.

UH, THERE HAVE BEEN NO PREVIOUS ZONING CASES, UH, ON THIS LOT.

UH, IT DOES INCLUDE THE FUTURE CONNECTION OF KAUFMAN LOOP TO HIGHWAY 29.

YOU CAN KIND OF MAKE IT OUT RIGHT HERE.

UH, WATER AND WASTEWATER UTILITIES WILL NEED TO BE EXTENDED TO THE PROPERTY IN ORDER TO DEVELOP.

UH, NEIGHBORHOOD OUTREACH WAS CONDUCTED FOR THE PROPERTIES WITHIN 500 FEET.

UH, MORE DETAIL CAN BE FOUND IN ATTACHMENT NINE, BUT SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED WERE, UH, A BUFFER BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT.

SO THIS SITE IS LOCATED WITHIN THE RONALD REAGAN AND HIGHWAY 29 ACTIVITY CENTER.

THE ACTIVITY CENTERS ARE INTENDED TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITY FOR DIVERSE RETAIL EMPLOYMENT AND MIXED USE DESTINATIONS AT CRITICAL INTERSECTIONS TO CREATE DENSE VALUE INTENSE DEVELOPMENT.

UH, THIS CURRENTLY IN THIS CENTER IS MADE UP OF 27% INTERIM RESIDENTIAL ZONING, 28% RESIDENTIAL, 25% COMMERCIAL, AND THE REMAINDER BEING, UH, E T J.

THIS MINOR, UH, PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING ALLOWABLE USES MANUFACTURE, ASSEMBLY OF PROCESSING AND MATERIALS OF NON-HAZARDOUS USES, RETAIL SALES OF NEW AND SECONDHAND RESALE SERVICES, WAREHOUSE AND DISTRIBUTION AND WHOLESALE ACTIVITIES.

UH, THE MINOR PUD ALSO INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING PROHIBITED USES FARMS OR TRUCK GARDENS, FUNERAL HOMES AND ASSOCIATED FACILITIES, MANUFACTURED HOUSING AND SALES AND ACCESSORY BUILDING SALES, TRANSPORTATION RELATED FACILITIES, NEW VEHICLE AND MAJOR EQUIPMENT, SALES RENTAL OR LEASING AND REPAIR OF NEW USED VEHICLES AND SELF STORAGE AND MINI STORAGE.

AND THE LAST PAGE OF, UH, THE PLANNING ANALYSIS INCLUDES, UH, MAP OF THE CURRENT STATE OF THE RONALD REAGAN HIGHWAY 29, UH, ACTIVITY CENTER.

JUST SO YOU ALL CAN, UH, VISUALIZE, UH, THE LAND USES.

AND I'LL BE AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

IS THERE AN APPLICANT PRESENTATION? YES.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

MY NAME IS BROOKE LANDER.

I AM A REGIONAL PARTNER FOR ST.

JOHN PROPERTIES AND I'M HERE WITH AMANDA BROWN FROM HD BROWN CONSULTING.

AND WE'RE, UH, HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE PROPOSED REZONING FOR THIS PROPERTY.

SO, HIGH LEVEL, JUST CUZ I'M NEWER TO TOWN.

UM, I JUST WANNA GIVE A QUICK OVERVIEW OF OUR COMPANY.

AMANDA WILL GIVE DETAILS ON THE ZONING.

UM, AND THEN I'LL COME BACK JUST TO SHARE MORE ABOUT OUR PRODUCT AND WHAT WE BUILD AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING HERE.

SO, UM, THIS IS, UH, JUST SOME IMAGES OF EXISTING PROJECTS THAT ARE IN OUR PORTFOLIO.

LET'S SEE HERE IT GOES.

SO, ST.

JOHN PROPERTIES, WE'RE A 52 YEAR OLD COMPANY.

WE HAVE 23 MILLION SQUARE FEET, UH, BUILT IN.

B WE'RE BASED IN BALTIMORE, MARYLAND.

I CAME DOWN IN, MOVED HERE IN APRIL OF 22 TO OPEN UP OUR REGIONAL OFFICE.

AND WHAT MAKES ST.

JOHN UNIQUE IS THAT WE'RE FULL SERVICE.

SO WE'VE IN-HOUSE CONSTRUCTION, DESIGN, LEASING, PROPERTY MANAGEMENT, AND WE HOLD FOREVER.

AND SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT ALL OF OUR DESIGN DECISIONS, LEASING DECISIONS, EVERYTHING THAT GOES INTO IT IS TO RETAIN TENANTS.

UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT COMING IN TO JUST FILL UP A BUILDING AND MOVE ON.

WE WILL, WE ARE COMMUNITY PARTNERS AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING AN AREA WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO OPEN THEIR BUSINESS, GROW THEIR BUSINESS, AND REALLY STAY.

UM, SO THIS MAP JUST HIGHLIGHTS SOME OF THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE'RE IN.

WE HAVE OVER 2,500 TENANTS AND OUR PRODUCT TYPE IS A CLASS A FLEX RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT, UH, OFFICE AND RETAIL.

SO ALL COMMERCIAL.

AND WE BUILD 100% SPEC AND REALLY LET THE COMMUNITY, UH, YOU KNOW, DETERMINE WHAT TYPE OF TENANT WANTS TO GO IN THERE.

OUR BAYS ARE, UH, CAN BE SPLIT UP ANYWHERE FROM 2000 SQUARE FEET, UM, AND, AND LARGER, BUT THE BUILDING MAX IS ABOUT 40 TO 50,000 SQUARE FEET.

SO IT'S REALLY CATERED TO A SMALL BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT AND THAT'S WHAT WE STRIVE, UH, TO GO INTO.

SO I'LL LET AMANDA TALK ABOUT JUST THE EXISTING AND WHAT'S PROPOSED, AND THEN I'LL COME BACK AND TALK MORE ABOUT OUR PRODUCT.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

AMANDA BROWN WITH HD BROWN CONSULTING.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING.

MICHAEL ALREADY

[00:15:01]

DID A REALLY GOOD JOB OF A LOT THAT I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT, SO I'LL TRY TO BE QUICK.

UM, THIS IS A LOCATION MAP.

AGAIN, THE SITE'S ABOUT 53 ACRES.

UM, IT'S LOCATED ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF, UM, STATE HIGHWAY 29 AND RONALD R RONALD REAGAN BOULEVARD.

OUR CURRENT, OUR CURRENT ZONING IS SFR.

UM, AND OUR CURRENT FUTURE LAND USE MAP DESIGNATION IS A ACTIVITY CENTER.

YOU CAN SEE THE SITE SITUATED, UM, IN GREEN THERE ON THE MAP.

THE ACTIVITY CENTER DOES CALL FOR DIVERSE COMMERCIAL USES.

UM, IT CALLS FOR PRIMARILY, UM, PRIMARILY, UM, COMMERCIAL RETAIL TYPE USES.

UM, AND, UH, HAS A LIST OF RETAIL AND OFFICE AND MANUFACTURING AND FUEL SALES AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

THIS PROJECT, UM, THAT WE'RE CONTEMPLATING FOR THIS SITE HAS ZERO RESIDENTIAL AND ALIGNS, UH, PERFECTLY WITH THE ACTIVITY CENTER DESIGNATION.

SO WE ARE DOING A MINOR PUD AS MICHAEL ALREADY MENTIONED, TO KIND OF WORK ON A USELESS THAT BOTH ALLOWS FLEXIBILITY FOR ST.

JOHN PROPERTIES TO BE ABLE TO, UM, CATER TO A LARGER TENANT POOL.

UM, AND THEN ALSO KIND OF PROHIBITING SOME OF THOSE USES, UM, THAT WE WORKED CLOSELY WITH STAFF TO FIGURE OUT WHICH USES WERE EITHER NOT APPROPRIATE AT ALL OR THAT NEEDED TO BE CONDITIONED, UM, IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

SO THE PERMITTED USES, UH, AGAIN, MANUFACTURING, SALES WAREHOUSE, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

UM, AND THEN PROHIBITED USES FARMS, TRUCK GARDENS, FUNERAL HOMES, UM, MANUFACTURED HOUSING, TRANSPORTATION RELATED FACILITIES, UM, VEHICLE EQUIPMENT SALES, AND THEN, UM, SELF-STORAGE AND THE WAREHOUSE.

WE DID DO SOME CONDITIONS ON THREE OF THE USES, UM, THAT ARE PERMITTED IN THE PUTT, BUT WANTED TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE GONNA BE AS, UH, HIGH QUALITY AS, AS NEEDED FOR THOSE PARTICULAR USES.

SO THE FIRST IS THE CONVENIENCE STORE WITH ASSOCIATED F FUEL SALES IS ONLY ALLOWED TO HAVE ONE ON THE ENTIRE TRACT ON THE ENTIRE 53 ACRE TRACT.

UM, ANIMAL HOSPITAL OR ANIMAL BOARDING, UM, AGAIN, IT'S A PERMITTED USE, BUT ANY SORT OF OUTDOOR LONG-TERM STORAGE OF ANIMALS IS NOT PERMITTED.

SO THERE'S ALLOWED TO HAVE, UM, A PLACE FOR THEM TO GO TO THE BATHROOM, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE, UM, KEPT IN INDOORS AT ALL TIMES, YOU KNOW, OVERNIGHT AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

UM, AND THEN OFFICE AND WAREHOUSE IS A PERMITTED USE AS WELL, UH, BUT AGAIN, ENSURING THAT ALL THE DOCK DOORS ARE LOCATED ON THE REAR OF THE BUILDING.

AND WITH THAT, I'M GONNA HAND IT BACK OVER TO BROOKE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT ST.

JOHN PROPERTIES.

SO, UH, I, WHEN I CAME HERE, I WAS, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO FIND, WE HAVE, WE HAVE A SPECIFIC PRODUCT THAT WE BUILD.

SO THE BUILDINGS THAT WE BUILD, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN IN THE 52 WEEK, TWO YEARS, WHAT'S DONE WELL AND WHAT DEMOGRAPHICS.

SO I WENT ABOUT THIS IN A REVERSE WAY WHERE IT WAS, COME LEARN THE MARKET, YOU KNOW, TALK TO PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE AND SEE WHAT THE FIT WAS.

AND SO I FEEL VERY LUCKY TO HAVE FOUND A GREAT LOCATION WHERE I THINK THIS PRODUCT WILL WORK.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I KEPT HEARING WAS, WE NEED SPACE FOR SMALL BUSINESSES.

WE NEED SPACE, UH, FOR PEOPLE TO GO INTO.

AND IN OUR EXPERIENCE IN LEASING HAVE FOUND THAT YOU, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE WALLS UP BEFORE PEOPLE SIGN LEASES AND BEFORE YOU CAN GET QUALITY TENANTS.

AND SO MY INTENT HERE IS TO PROVIDE THAT BECAUSE WE'RE A LONG TERM HOLDER, WE AMENITIZE OUR PARK WITH LANDSCAPING.

AND AGAIN, THESE PICTURES HIGHLIGHT THAT.

UM, AND, YOU KNOW, OUR FLEX THE FRONT OF IT, THE INTENT IS FOR IT TO LOOK LIKE CLASS A OFFICE.

UH, WE'VE SEEN OVER THE YEARS IN TRACKING, YOU KNOW, 2,500 CLIENTS THAT AS BUSINESSES CHANGE, THERE'S A PUSH WHERE IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE THAT HAS IT, THEY NEED SOMEWHERE THAT'S NICE THAT THEY CAN ENTERTAIN THEIR CLIENTS AND HAVE MEETINGS.

BUT ONCE A WEEK, THEY MAY STILL HAVE A TRUCK THAT'S COMING THROUGH TO DROP EQUIPMENT.

SO OUR INTENT FOR OUR PARKS IS NOT FOR THEM TO GET BEAT UP BY A LOT OF TRUCK TRAFFIC.

IT'S REALLY ABOUT A CLASS A ENVIRONMENT.

SO THAT'S WHY YOU'LL SEE, UM, WE'LL SHOW ON THE NEXT SLIDE.

THERE'S, WE, THERE'S SCREEN WALLS AS PART OF OUR SPEC.

WE TRY TO USE A NICE BRICK, UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, AMENITY SPACE AS PART OF THAT TO CREATE A COHESIVE ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE IF I DON'T CREATE THAT, MY TENANTS AREN'T STAYING, IF MY TENANTS LEAVE, THE ONLY PERSON THAT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR REFILLING THAT SPACE IS ME.

SO IT'S REALLY SELFISH, IT'S NOT, UH, THAT CREATIVE.

BUT AGAIN, THE INTENT IS HOW DO I CREATE A REALLY NICE SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO GO? AND THAT TIES INTO THE RETAIL PIECE OF THIS AS WELL.

PEOPLE WANNA GO SOMEWHERE WHERE THEY'RE WORKING, BUT THEY CAN GO OUT AND GET A SANDWICH AT LUNCH WITH HAVING OUT, HAVING TO GET INTO THEIR CAR AND GO SOMEWHERE.

AND SO MY GOAL IS PLACE MAKING BUSINESS PARKS AND, UH, SOMEWHERE THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BE.

AND THAT'S A NICE ENVIRONMENT.

AND THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE.

YOU KNOW, REALLY WHEN YOU HAVE, UH, AS MUCH SPACE AS WE DO, YOU CAN TRACK AND SEE OTHER EXAMPLE PARKS THAT HAVE DEMOGRAPHICS SIMILAR TO LEANDER AND THEN, YOU KNOW, PROJECT WHAT TYPE OF TENANT WE SEE FILLING UP THOSE BUILDINGS.

SO IF THESE WERE LOCATED OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE BY THE AIRPORT, WE'D PROBABLY END UP WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, HEAVIER TRUCK TRAFFIC IN MY BUILDINGS, QUITE FRANKLY, WOULD PROBABLY BE TOO LOW TO ACCOMMODATE THE USERS THAT WANNA GO IN.

BUT IN AN AREA LIKE WE ARE IN HERE, THE COMMUNITY, WE CAN CATER TO SOME

[00:20:01]

DIVERSE USES, UH, LIKE THE OFFICE, LIKE DAYCARES.

AND AGAIN, BECAUSE I WANNA KEEP THEM, I STRATEGICALLY LEASE UP SO THAT YOU NEVER HAVE THE INTERFERENCE OF SOMEONE THAT MAY HAVE A TRUCK NEAR SOMEONE THAT MAY BE HAVING A DAYCARE.

SO VERY STRATEGIC IN MANAGING THAT.

AGAIN, JUST TO RETAIN PEOPLE.

UM, AND THE USE IS HERE.

I WOULD SAY THE IDEA IS JUST TO ALLOW THE FLEXIBILITY SO THAT I DON'T HAVE TO TURN AWAY SOMEBODY THAT WANTS TO BE HERE.

AND SO THAT'S REALLY, THAT'S IT.

AGAIN, MORE EXAMPLE PROJECTS OF OUR RETAIL STRIP STANDARD, OUR FLEX STRIP STANDARD.

IF ANYONE EVER GOES TO MARYLAND, YOU'LL SEE A, A VAST AMOUNT OF THIS PRODUCT.

UM, MR. ST.

JOHN IS VERY BULLISH ON BRICK AND, UH, YOU CAN SEE THAT HERE.

SO, UH, THAT'S IT FOR US.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

AT THIS TIME WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE THAT WISHES TO SPEAK ON THIS ISSUE? SEEING NONE.

WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND ENTER DISCUSSION.

COMMISSIONER OLIVER, UH, THANK YOU FOR, FOR THE PRESENTATION, UH, YOU KNOW, VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT.

SO REALLY APPRECIATE Y'ALL BEING HERE.

UM, THE QUESTION I HAD I THINK WAS REALLY SPECIFIC AROUND THE, UM, COMMENTS REGARDING JUST REALLY THE, THE, THE RESIDENTIAL LOTS THAT ARE GONNA BE ALONG WALK AUSA WAY.

I THINK THAT'S PART OF BAR W RANCH AND THAT MASS, THE DEVELOPMENT GOING ON OVER THERE.

BUT, UM, IS, IS THAT TRUE OR, ANYWAY, I DON'T WANNA MISSPEAK, BUT EITHER WAY THERE'S, LOOKS LIKE THERE'S ABOUT MAYBE SIX LOTS THAT BACK UP TO THAT LITTLE KIND OF CORNER OF, OF YOUR PROPERTY, THE BACK END.

UH, HAVE, HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO THINK ABOUT HOW YOU INTEND TO, I GUESS, MANAGE THAT BUFFER AND KIND OF CREATE SOME SORT OF SPACE BETWEEN THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND THEN THAT RESIDENTIAL? SO THERE'S JUST SOME KIND OF GREEN SPACE BETWEEN THOSE TWO? YES, WE, WE HAVE, AND WE HAVE COMMUNICATED WITH THE BONNET NEIGHBORHOOD ON THAT AS WELL.

BOND.

UM, AND SO WE, UH, SEVERAL THINGS HERE.

SO THE CITY, THE CITY CODE ALREADY HAS PROVISIONS IN PLACE TO ADDRESS THAT VERY THING.

SO WHEN YOU HAVE COMMERCIAL ADJACENT TO HOMES, THERE'S AN INCREASE IN SETBACK.

SO THE STANDARD SETBACK IS 15 FEET, BUT BECAUSE OF THE COMMERCIAL NEXT TO THE SINGLE FAMILY, IT'S INCREASED UP TO 50 FEET.

UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, UM, EVERY 600 SQUARE FEET YOU HAVE TO HAVE TWO SHADE TREES.

SO IT'LL BE SCREENED AND PLANTED PER THE CODE.

, I THINK ANOTHER COUPLE THINGS TO MENTION ABOUT JUST THAT'S UNIQUE TO THIS PARTICULAR TRACK IS THAT IT NATURALLY DRAINS TO THAT AREA.

UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WITH OUR PRELIMINARY SORT OF RESEARCH ON IT, WE EXPECT THAT THAT AREA TO PRIMARILY BE DRAINAGE FACILITIES AND VERY LIGHTLY DEVELOPED ANYWAY.

UM, I KNOW ST.

JOHN'S DOES, UM, YEAH, SPECIAL BUFFERING AS WELL.

I JUST WANNA SHOW, I HAD, UM, LET'S SEE IF I CAN SEE.

ANYWAYS, THAT PICTURE UP ON THE, ON THE TOP RIGHT GIVES AN EXAMPLE OF JUST, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THE, THERE IS RESIDENTIAL AND IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY CLOSER THAN WHAT IS PROPOSED ON THIS PROJECT.

AND YOU SEE THE GREEN AND THE SCREEN.

SO THAT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE OF WE DO IT, WE KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT AND WE REALLY WANNA BE COHESIVE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, NOT A BIG INDUSTRIAL PARK THAT'S CAUSING PROBLEMS FOR THE NEIGHBORS.

SO IT'S, UH, DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT'S TOP OF MIND THAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT.

AND YEAH, IT WORKED OUT THAT THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO BE AN AREA THAT NATURALLY YOU WOULDN'T PUT A BUILDING ANYWAYS.

SO, UH, IF ANYONE WAS WORRIED I YOU GOT THAT AT LEAST.

THE, THE ONE THING I WANTED TO BRING UP JUST SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE BASED ON ALLOWING WAREHOUSE SPACE WITHIN THIS PARTICULAR COMMERCIAL ZONING, IS THAT THE, THE REQUEST IS THAT THAT WAREHOUSE SPACE OR ANY DOCKS HAVE TO BE FACING AWAY FROM THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY.

SO THEN THAT MEANS THE BACK OF IT BECOMES THE AREA WHERE TRUCKS WOULD COME IN AND POTENTIALLY LOAD AND UNLOAD MM-HMM.

AND SO THAT, THAT'S THE ONLY THING I DO WORRY ABOUT THAT SPACE POTENTIALLY BEING AN AREA WHERE THERE WAS A DRIVEWAY OR SOME SORT OF, YOU KNOW, CONCRETE LOT WHERE THEY CAN PULL BACK OR, OR THEY COULD PARK OR STAY OR REST OR THEN, OR THEN THEY CAN ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, HAVE A LOADING DOCK BACK THERE.

SO I JUST WANT TO BRING THAT UP AND MAKE THAT, YOU KNOW, ISSUE, UH, JUST AWARE THAT THAT COULD BE A CONCERN, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE RESIDENTS THAT ARE BACKED UP TO THAT AS WELL AS MAYBE ANY LIGHTING MM-HMM.

FIXTURES, UH, YOU KNOW, PARK, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, IT'S YOU STREET LIGHTING, PARKING LOT LIGHTING, UM, THAT COULD SHINE IN THESE, YOU KNOW, THESE POTENTIAL, THESE, THESE ARE STILL LOTS THAT AREN'T EVEN I THINK, OCCUPIED YET, SO.

NO ONE'S BOUGHT THAT PROPERTY YET, BUT BUYING, KNOWING THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE BACKING UP TO A COMMERCIAL AREA THAT COULD HAVE A LARGE PARKING LOT WHERE TRUCKS COULD PARK AND THERE'S LIGHTING AND STUFF COULD BE A CONCERN.

YEAH, SURE.

SO I JUST WANNA BRING THOSE ISSUES UP NOW SO THEY'RE ADDRESSED IN THE, IN THE FINAL OR THE, THE SITE PLAN.

UNDERSTOOD.

AND I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE WHEN YOU LAY OUT A SITE PLAN, YOU CAN'T CONTROL ANYTHING, BUT WE REALLY TRY TO BUILD THE BUILDING SO THEY'RE BACK TO BACK MM-HMM.

SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT.

SO THAT WITH THE LANDSCAPE, OR I'M SORRY, WITH THE SCREEN WALL HELPS CONTAIN IT.

UM, BUT UNDERSTOOD AND HEAR YOUR COMMENT THAT IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

THAT'S GOOD.

AND THEN OUTSIDE OF THAT, JUST, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THE CITY WILL DO A GOOD JOB OF MAINTAINING THE ARCHITECTURAL COMPONENT.

, YOU KNOW, HERE WE DO A LOT OF STONE, NOT JUST BRICK.

BRICK IS GREAT.

I'M, I'M LEARNING THAT BRICK AND STONE WORK REALLY WELL TOGETHER IN TEXAS.

JUST SO YOU KNOW, I'M ALSO LEARNING THAT IT'S EASIER TO SOURCE THE STONE HERE.

SO, UH, THERE COULD BE A LEARNING OPPORTUNITY FOR ME THERE.

YOU DIG ABOUT AN INCH DEEP AND YOU'LL HIT IT.

SO YEAH.

THERE,

[00:25:01]

IT'S, ANYWAY, THANK YOU.

THAT, THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONER MOSS.

HELLO.

HOW ARE Y'ALL DOING? UM, I GUESS THE ONLY CONCERN I HAVE, I GUESS A COUPLE OF 'EM, ONE IS THE MANUFACTURING NOW, IS THIS GONNA BE LIKE A 24 HOUR A DAY MANUFACTURING? YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH NOISE, YOU KNOW, WILL IT BE, OR IF IT IS GONNA BE CONDENSED TO CERTAIN HOURS? AND THEN THE OTHER THING IS AGAIN, THE WAREHOUSE DISTRIBUTION, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH NOISE WOULD IT BE WITH THE TRUCKS BEEPING AND THE LIGHTS GOING ON AND ALL THAT? WILL THAT BE ALL NIGHT LONG? NIGHTTIME? OR IT'S DAYTIME? I, I JUST WANNA GET AN IDEA.

SURE.

I THINK, UH, THAT WAS PART OF THE REASON, YOU KNOW, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF THE COMP PRODUCT AS I'VE GOTTEN TO KNOW THIS MARKET AND I THINK WE'RE DIFFERENT.

SO, YOU KNOW, UH, WHEN YOU HAVE THE AMAZONS OR THE FEDEXES OF THE WORLD OR THE BIG MANUFACTURING, THEY WOULD NEVER FIT IN MY BUILDINGS.

THEY TYPICALLY NEED A 24 TO A 32 FOOT CLEAR.

AND SO WE KEEP THESE BUILDINGS AT 18.

AND SO WHAT THAT ALLOWS IS THAT IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY NEED SOME OFFICE AND THEY'RE DOING SOME LIGHT ASSEMBLY AND IT'S GOING OUT ON A BOX TRUCK OR YOU KNOW THEY'RE DOING A COUPLE SHIPMENTS A WEEK, WE CAN ACCOMMODATE THEM.

UM, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, AS THE WORLD'S CHANGING, WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT, OH, YOU KNOW, OFFICE IS DYING AND WHATEVER.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN OUR PORTFOLIO IS THAT PEOPLE THAT WERE ONCE UPON A TIME IN OFFICE AND THEN HAD THEIR SEPARATE FACILITIES, THEY WANNA COME TOGETHER MM-HMM.

AND THEY WANNA WORK TOGETHER.

AND THAT'S WHERE YOU GET YOUR CREATIVE USES AND YOUR RESEARCH AND TESTING.

AND THAT'S WHAT I'M, YOU KNOW, SEEING FROM A TENANT DEMAND SIDE AND JUST THESE NEWER BUSINESSES THAT NEED SPACE.

UM, SO THE INTENT IN HAVING THAT THERE IS NOT TO ACCOMMODATE A BIG NOISY FACILITY, BUT IT'S TO NOT PRECLUDE THAT SOMEONE THAT HAS THAT ON A SMALLER END HAS A PLACE TO GO BECAUSE THEY'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO GO LEASE FROM A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT MANUFACTURING FACILITY.

SO IT'S KIND OF THAT IN BETWEEN TO ALLOW FOR THAT.

DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? UM, NOT REALLY.

I MEAN IT'S, I GUESS IT'S, UH, NOT REALLY.

UM, CUZ I'M THINKING OKAY, IT'S GONNA BE LIKE LOW LEVEL, MEDIUM LEVEL, HIGH LEVEL, YOU KNOW, NOISE.

IS IT GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, I, I'M A VISIONARY PERSON SO I I NEED SOME TYPE OF, YOU KNOW, VISION OF OKAY.

OR, OR AT LEAST SOME TYPE OF STANDARD OR PARAMETER THAT YEAH.

I WAS JUST GONNA ADD, WE'VE BEEN, WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THE LIGHTING ORDINANCES THAT THE CITY OF LANDER HAS IN PLACE AND WE'LL CERTAINLY BE COMPLYING WITH THOSE AS WELL AS WE MOVE THROUGH THE SITE PLANNING PROCESS.

UM, SO THERE ARE PROVISIONS IN PLACE ALREADY THAT WILL ADDRESS THOSE.

AND I THINK WITH THE 50 50 FOOT SETBACK AND THE SCREENING AND REALLY THE SMALL SCALE, I MEAN ST.

JOHN'S IS VERY UNIQUE.

I MEAN, WE'RE SEEING THESE HUGE 500,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDINGS AND THESE ARE MUCH, MUCH SMALLER MM-HMM.

UM, AND, AND SO WE EXPECT THOSE TYPES OF FACILITIES AND ACTIVITIES TO BE MUCH, MUCH LESS.

OH.

UH, UH, AND I DO APPRECIATE YOU ALL CATERING TO THE SMALLER BUSINESSES CUZ LIKE YOU SAY, THEY CAN'T GO, YOU KNOW, WITH THE BIG BOX PEOPLE MM-HMM.

SO I DO APPRECIATE THAT.

AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT OUR, OUR NEIGHBORS ARE, UH, YOU KNOW, BEING SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED WHEN THEY COME TO THE NOISE, THE LIGHT AND THE WHOLE NINE YARDS.

AND I KNOW WE'RE NEW HERE, BUT WE'RE NOT NEW AND WE HAVE REALLY LOCATED NEAR RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITIES IN A LOT OF PLACES.

SO I WOULD SAY WE'RE A COMMUNITY FIRST TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT AND, UH, COMMUNITY FRIENDLY.

WELL, I MEAN, I JUST MEAN THAT LIKE, I'M NOT, AMANDA'S HEARD ME HARP ON THIS.

LIKE, I DON'T GO INTO AN AREA AND JUST FIND A PIECE OF LAND MM-HMM.

AND SHOVE IT DOWN PEOPLE'S THROATS FOR MY USE.

I REALLY HAVE TRIED TO FIND A, I MEAN, I'VE TRIED TO FIND A MARKET IN A COMMUNITY WHERE I THOUGHT OUR PRODUCT MADE SENSE.

AND SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE SEEKING HERE IS THAT I'VE SEEN THE DEMAND AND, YOU KNOW, LISTENED AND HEARD THAT, HEY, WE HAVE ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT NEED SPACE, BUT YOU HAVE TO BUILD IT SPEC.

AND I'M LIKE, OH WAIT, THAT'S A FIT.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE DO.

SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT I'M HOPING TO PROVIDE.

COMMISSIONER COSGROVE FIRST I, I I WANT TO THANK YOU.

I THINK THAT'S A REALLY NICE PRESENTATION.

UM, AND, AND I WANNA THANK YOU FOR CLEARING UP, I THINK IS, IS A REAL IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN 18 FOOT CLEAR, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT 30 FOOT, BECAUSE THAT, THAT REALLY, UM, CHANGES FOR ME, ESPECIALLY WHEN I'M THINKING, WHEN I, WHEN I READ THE PUT AND I SAY I SEE WAREHOUSE MM-HMM.

, I SEE MANUFACTURING NEXT TO RESIDENTIAL, I'M THINKING 32 FOOT BAYS.

AND, AND, AND, AND ESPECIALLY IN A GATEWAY LOCATION LIKE THIS, UM, IT RAISES A BUNCH OF RED FLAGS FOR ME.

UM, I I, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER OLIVER THAT WE, WE HAVE TO REALLY BE CONSIDERATE OF, OF HOW WE'RE GONNA PLACE THOSE BAYS IN RELATION TO, TO THE RESIDENTIAL THAT'S THERE.

UM, BUT, UM, OVERALL, I I, I, I WALKED IN UNSURE .

I HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS WHEN I WA WHEN I SAT DOWN TONIGHT, AND I THANK YOU FOR, FOR ANSWERING THEM.

I THINK YOU GUYS DID A GREAT JOB.

[00:30:01]

I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS.

YOU KNOW, I, I LIKE SOME OF THE OTHERS AM NOT A FAN OF PUTTING MANUFACTURING AND WAREHOUSE DISTRIBUTION ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL AREA.

I'M ALL FOR THE OFFICE, THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE.

IT'S AN ACTIVITY CENTER.

WE WANT AS MUCH COMMERCIAL IN THERE AS WE CAN GET.

I THINK THE, SOME OF THE OTHER USES THAT ARE IN THE PUT ARE MAYBE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THE EMPLOYMENT CENTER AND NOT AN ACTIVITY CENTER.

SO I JUST WANNA REMIND EVERYBODY THAT WHATEVER THE POD SAYS IS WHAT IS GOING TO RULE.

SO IF THE POD SAYS NOTHING ABOUT HOW THOSE BAYS ARE GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, IF, IF WHATEVER THE POD SAYS BECOMES THE ZONING, SO, UH, IF, IF SOME OF YOU WANT TO APPROVE IT WITH CERTAIN CONDITIONS, THEY HAVE TO GO IN THE POD, THE POD HAS TO BE AMENDED HERE AND NOW, OR IT WILL, YOU KNOW, GO JUST LIKE IT STANDS.

SO, UH, THOSE ARE ALL MY COMMENTS.

THIS IS AN ACTION ITEM.

IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, I'D BE WILLING TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE BAYS HAVE A MAXIMUM OF 18 FEET AS YOU ALREADY HAVE PLANNED.

I WOULD SECOND THAT AT.

AND IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT JOHN YOU MENTIONED, UM, DO YOU WANNA AMEND TO ADD THE WAY THEY FACE OR WAS, WHO WAS THAT THAT WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WAY THEY'RE GONNA FACE? WELL, THE, THE, THE, THE CITY ALREADY REQUIRES THAT THOSE BAYS HAVE TO FACE AWAY, AWAY FROM THE FRONT SO THAT THEY HAVE TO FACE AWAY, AWAY FROM, UH, HIGHWAY 29.

SO THEY'LL BE IN THE BACK.

BUT, SO THAT MEANS THEY, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY FACE THE, UH, RESIDENTIAL, BUT GIVEN THE SIZE AND THE, THE WIDTH OF THAT LITTLE SECTION THERE, I MEAN, I WOULD LIKE TO LEAST SAY I PREFER THEM TO BE SOMEWHERE, YOU KNOW, FURTHER TO THE EAST.

SO IT'S NOT ANYWHERE NEAR OR NEAR FACING THE RESIDENTIAL LOTS THAT ABUT TO THAT PROPERTY.

JUST FOR MY OWN KNOWLEDGE, IF THE OFFICE PORTION OF THAT, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE A DESIGN WHERE THE OFFICE PORTION IS FACING THE RESIDENTIAL, IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? AS LONG AS IT'S NOT THE DOCK SIDE, I THINK I'D BE FINE WITH THAT.

I, I DON'T THINK THERE'S CONCERN WITH THAT.

NO.

YEAH, I MEAN YOUR, YOUR RESIDENTIAL, I MEAN, ARE YOU, SORRY, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR RETAIL OR COMMERCIAL, THEY HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF BACKDOOR ACCESS AND THAT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA FACE, YOU KNOW, UH, RESIDENTIAL.

I'VE SEEN IT A LOT OF PLACES.

SO, UM, JUST AS LONG, I MEAN, AND IT'S, THERE'S A FAR ENOUGH SETBACK.

I THINK IT'S GONNA BE OKAY.

BUT THAT'S, I THINK BETWEEN THE SETBACK AND THE SCREENING, I THINK IT'S, IT'S THE SCREENING REQUIREMENT I THINK IS HELPFUL.

I THINK IT PROBABLY, I, I'M LESS, I'M, I'M LESS ANTSY ABOUT THAT NOW THAN YEAH.

WHEN I SAT DOWN.

BUT I, I, I DO, I DO APPRECIATE COMMISSIONER LANTRIP, UH, JUST BRINGING THIS UP AND, AND MAKING THAT POINT VERY CLEAR BECAUSE WE DO TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO HAVE THESE STIPULATIONS IN INSIDE RIGHT.

THE REQUIREMENTS WHEN WE DO APPROVE THIS OR, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT APPROVED.

BUT I, I, AS I SAID BEFORE, I STICK WITH MY, MY MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THE STIPULATION.

ARE YOU STILL GOOD? I'LL SECOND.

SO THE MOTION'S BEEN MADE BY COMMISSIONER OLIVER, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER COSGROVE TO APPROVE ALL THOSE IN FAVOR AND OPPOSED, CAN I GET A QUICK CLARIFICATION? SO THE CONDITION IS JUST THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF THE BAY, OR IS IT ALSO NOT FACING THE SINGLE FAMILY ON THE WEST? UM, THE, THE, THE HEIGHT OF THE BAY AND THEN I, I DEFINITELY DO PREFER IT NOT TO BE FACING BACK TO THE SINGLE FAMILY ON THE WEST.

SO IT NEED, IT WOULD NEED TO BE TO THE EAST SO IT'S NOT VISIBLE TO THOSE.

CAN I MAKE A QUICK CLARIFICATION AS WELL? IS THIS JUST FOR IF THERE ARE ANY BUILDINGS WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE OF THE SINGLE FAMILY, OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT FOR ALL OF THEM? IF WE COULD CLARIFY THAT ON THE RECORD.

WELL, THE WAY THE MOTION WAS, WAS MADE, IT WAS FOR THE WHOLE PROJECT IS MY UNDERSTANDING.

UM, NOW THIS ALSO HAS TO GO TO COUNCIL.

THIS IS JUST OUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL.

CORRECT.

BUT WAS THAT, I MEAN, WASN'T THAT THE MOTION'S ALREADY BEEN VOTED ON, UM, RESIDENTIAL THOUGH, RIGHT? YEAH, I, I, THE, I THOUGHT THE MOTION WAS FOR ALL FOR FOR ANYTHING THAT WAS WITHOUT A BUILDING BUFFER BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL AND THE RIGHT.

SO THE LAST BUILDING, RIGHT, WHEN THERE'S NO OTHER BUILDINGS BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL AND, AND THE BAY MM-HMM.

IF YOU GUYS CAN FLIP THE BAY, THAT'D BE GREAT.

CLO CLOSEST BUILDING IT SOUNDS LIKE.

I HAVE, DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? I HAVE MORE QUESTION.

I'M SORRY.

IT'S, UH, IF THIS IS THE, YOU KNOW, THE LINE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL, CAN THEY BE SIDEWAYS OR DO THEY TRULY HAVE TO BE THE FRONT OF IT AS ALONG THERE? JUST AS I'M WORKING THROUGH LAYOUT, I MEAN, THAT'S GONNA BE WITH THE CITY CUZ THE, THE, BASED ON THE GUIDELINES THAT I'VE READ FROM THE CITY FOR, FOR THAT PARTICULAR COMMERCIAL AND WAREHOUSE, THEY HAVE TO BE FACING AWAY FROM, FROM STATE HIGHWAY 29.

SO I MEAN, I'M ASSUMING THOSE BAYS COULD POSSIBLY BE FACING TO THE SIDE.

AND SO I THINK IT'S, IF YOU CAN WORK WITH THE CITY ON WHENEVER YOU PUT YOUR SITE PLAN TOGETHER AND WHERE YOU'RE GONNA PUT YOUR BUILDINGS

[00:35:01]

IN BAYS AND SO FORTH.

GOT IT.

DISCUSS AND CONSIDER ACTION ON TREE REMOVAL CASE TRP 23 DASH 0 0 1 3 REGARDING REMOVAL OF TWO HERITAGE TREES AND SEVEN SIGNIFICANT TREES ASSOCIATED WITH THE V A L PS.

AND THAT ULTIMATELY WILL JUST US COME BACK TO US TO REVIEW AS WELL.

IT'S GONNA MAKE A GREAT PROJECT, .

OKAY, NOW WE'RE MOVING ON TO ITEM 16.

I TRIED TO GET THERE EARLIER, BUT , YOU WAS QUICK.

I WAS, I WAS, I WAS AHEAD OF MYSELF.

ITEM NUMBER 16,

[16. Discuss and consider action on Tree Removal Case TRP-23-0013 regarding removal of two heritage trees and seven significant trees associated with the VALPS Ronald Reagan Retail Site Development Project located at 17401 Ronald Reagan Blvd., Leander, Williamson County, Texas. Staff Presentation Applicant Presentation Discussion Consider Action]

RONALD REAGAN RETAIL SITE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT LOCATED AT 17,401 RONALD REAGAN BOULEVARD, LEANDER WILLIAMSON COUNTY, TEXAS STAFF PRESENTATION.

OKAY, READY? GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONER.

HOPE YOU'RE ALL WELL.

UM, SO I HAVE TWO UH, TREE REMOVAL CASES FOR YOU TONIGHT.

THE FIRST OF WHICH, UH, IS THE VALS RONALD REAGAN RETAIL.

UH, TONIGHT'S, UH, APPLICANT IS HERE TONIGHT.

UH, UH, REPRESENTATIVES FROM LYLE ENGINEERING.

THIS IS THE FIRST STEP IN THE PROCESS DUE TO THE, UH, TWO HERITAGE TREE REMOVALS, UH, AGAIN STATED.

UM, I'LL REITERATE, THEY ARE REMOVING TWO HERITAGE TREES, UH, AND BOTH OF THOSE WILL BE A TOTAL OF 66 CALIBER INCHES AND SEVEN SIGNIFICANT TREES, A TOTAL OF 152 CALIBER INCHES.

UH, DUE TO THE SITE DEVELOPMENT IMPROVEMENTS ON SITE, UH, IN THE COMPOSITE ZONING ORDINANCE, THE REMOVAL OF A HERITAGE AND OR SIGNIFICANT TREE GREATER THAN 18 CALIBER INCHES REQUIRES THE APPROVAL OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.

AND IN THE CASE OF HERITAGE TREES, UH, THE CITY COUNCIL.

SO IT'LL MOVE ON TO THEM.

UH, THIS COMMISSION WILL ALSO NOTICE IN THE ARBORIST REPORT, UM, AND THE TREE REMOVAL EXHIBIT, THERE WAS A THIRD HERITAGE TREE.

UM, IT IS A 29 CALIPER INCH POST OAK, UH, TREE NUMBER 30 36, UH, THAT WOULD BE REMOVED WITHOUT MITIGATION DUE TO THE ARBORS REPORT THAT IT IS DEAD DISEASED, UM, AND HAZARDOUS, UH, DESIGNATION.

UM, THE TREE WAS INCLUDED IN THE ARBOR REPORT AND TREE REMOVAL, THE EXHIBIT FOR TRANSPARENCY.

SO IF I CAN SET THE SCENE FOR THE REQUEST.

UH, LET'S SEE.

I GUESS THE LOCATION MAP WOULD BE THE BEST.

LET'S DO AN AERIAL, UM, TO THE NORTH YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL OR A SINGLE FAMILY PRODUCT.

UH, LARGE LOT RESIDENTIAL LOTS, UH, TO THE EAST ACROSS, UH, RONALD REAGAN.

YOU HAVE GENERAL COMMERCIAL, WHICH IS A RESIDENTIAL LOT AT THE TIME TO THE SOUTH.

YOU ALSO HAVE, UH, ADDITIONAL GENERAL COMMERCIAL.

UH, AND THAT IS A TRANSMISSION, UH, YARD.

I THINK L C R A OWNS IT, UH, AND TO THE WEST IS UNDEVELOPED.

UH, IT IS ALSO, UH, SINGLE FAMILY AND, UH, IT IS UNDER AN AG EXEMPTION.

UM, SO THE PROPERTY CONTAINS FLOODPLAIN THAT RUNS ALONG THE EAST SIDE OR WEST SIDE.

I'M SORRY, RIGHT ABOUT HERE.

UM, THE REMAINDER OF THE TRACK CONTAINS TREE COVER THAT IS BEING ADDRESSED THROUGH THE CURRENT SITE DEVELOPMENT PERMIT THAT IS STILL UNDER REVIEW.

UH, THE PROJECT NUMBER IS SD 20 2029, IN CASE ANYONE WAS INTERESTED.

THE PROPERTY TAKES ACCESS OFF OF RONALD REAGAN AS WELL AS FM 2243.

UH, THE PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY UNDEVELOPED AND BEING USED AS AG LAND.

UM, SO IN YOUR REPORT, YOU SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED, LET'S SEE, HERE'S A COPY OF THE LAYOUT.

UM, THERE WAS ALSO, UH, AN ARBORIST REPORT THAT WENT TREE BY TREE.

THEY MADE FINDINGS OF FACT FOR EACH TREE RIGHT HERE IN THE SUMMARY.

UM, THERE'S A PRETTY EXTENSIVE DOCUMENT.

SO, UM, THERE IS, UH, A LOTS OF EXISTING TREE, UH, PRESERVATION THAT THEY ARE PRESERVING ON SITE.

UM, THE DOCUMENTS LISTED, UH, COVERED ALL THAT.

THEY'RE, THEY'RE PRESERVING 953, UH, CALIBER INCHES OF, UH, OF ADDIT OF TREES ON SITE.

AND THEN THEY'RE ADDITIONALLY USING, UH, UNDERSIZED TREES AS CREDITS BACK AS WELL.

SO THERE WAS A PRETTY HUGE SURPLUS.

UH, SO THE APPLICANT WILL PAY THE, UH, FEE TO REMOVE THE HERITAGE TREES, UH, WHICH WILL BE 66 CALIBER INCHES AT $300, UH, THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT HUB AND THE TREE, UH, MITIGATION REQUIREMENTS.

THE APPLICANT IS APPLYING TREE PRESERVATION, UH, AND, UH, UNDER STORED CREDITS TOWARDS THE MITIGATION REQUIREMENTS TO NEGATE ANY FEE IN LIEU OVER PLANTING OR, UM, OVERSIZED LANDSCAPE.

UM, THAT CONCLUDES STAFF'S PRESENTATION.

UH, AGAIN, THE, UH, REPRESENTATIVE IS HERE TONIGHT, SO WE'LL BE AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONING.

GOOD EVENING, MADAM CHAIR AND COMMISSIONER, UM, STEVE AND WITH, UH, LAW ENGINEER REPRESENT THE APPLICANT.

[00:40:03]

UM, I KNOW THAT ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT IS, WOW, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A NUMBER OF TREES.

IT'S A LOT, BUT THE REALITY IS, AND I'LL I'LL SHOW YOU HERE IN A MINUTE.

UM, HOW DO I FLIP THROUGH IT THEN? I'M SORRY.

OH, YEAH.

UM, IT'S A CHALLENGING SITE.

UH, IT'S SEVEN ACRES IN TOTAL, AND ABOUT THREE OF THE SEVEN ACRES IS COVERED UP WITH EASEMENTS IN SOME TYPE, UH, DRAINAGE EASEMENTS AND L CCRA TRANSMISSION LINE, UH, AND, AND TREE COVER.

SO YOU'LL, YOU'LL SEE THAT, UH, IT, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, I WANTED TO KIND OF GIVE YOU THE SCOPE OF HOW MANY TREES THERE ARE ON THE SITE.

THERE ARE 58 SIGNIFICANT TREES.

AND, AND OF THOSE SIGNIFICANT TREES, 19 OF THEM ARE HERITAGE OR PROTECTED.

ACTUALLY, IT'S 18 BECAUSE WE'D MADE THIS PRESENTATION BEFORE THE DEAD DETERMINATION.

UM, WELL ACTUALLY, WE, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT WE DIDN'T NEED YOUR PERMISSION TO REMOVE THE DEAD TREE AT THE TIME, SO WE THOUGHT WE STILL HAD TO GET AN APPLICATION FOR THAT SEVEN OF THE, OF OUR, OF, UM, OUR HERITAGE TREES, WHICH IS ACTUALLY SIX.

AND, UM, SO WE'RE REMOVING THREE OF THE 10 HERITAGE TREES.

UM, YEAH, I'M SORRY, WHAT IS, THAT'S WRONG.

THREE OF THE SEVEN, THREE OF THE SEVEN.

AND THEN OF THE 12 PROTECTED TREES, WE'RE REMOVING SEVEN OF THE 12.

BUT, UM, I WANTED TO DEMONSTRATE HOW MUCH OF THE SITE IS IMPACTED BY THESE TREES.

AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT CORNER RIGHT AT THE INTERSECTION OF RONALD REAGAN IN 2243.

AND SO WE REALLY NEEDED TO PLACE THE SITE WITH A RELATIVE PROXIMITY TO THE RIGHT, BECAUSE OF THE FLOOD PLAIN.

WE HAVE ACCESS ISSUES BECAUSE OF DRIVEWAY SPACINGS FROM THE INTERSECTION.

UM, AND SO ALL OF THOSE THINGS DRIVE EVERYTHING TOWARDS THAT DIRECTION, AND IT KIND OF, IT MAKES IT HAPPEN THIS WAY.

I MEAN, IT JUST, IT JUST DOES.

UM, THIS IS THE LANDSCAPE PLAN SHOWING ALL OF THE TREES THAT ARE GONNA BE PLANTED ALL OVER THE PLACE ON THIS, ON THIS SITE TO, YOU KNOW, BOTH MITIGATE AND ALSO MEET THE CODE REQUIREMENTS.

THAT'S WHAT THE RED CIRCLES ARE, ARE DEMONSTRATING COVERAGE.

AND, UH, THEN I THINK IN YOUR BACKUP INFORMATION IS THE CALCULATIONS.

SO ALL OF THE CALCULATIONS BEEN MADE AFTER EVALUATIONS WITH THE, THE ARBORIST AND, UM, DETERMINING WHAT THE RESULT IS OF OUR REMOVAL.

UM, AGAIN, MORE DESCRIPTIONS.

SO WHAT I WANTED TO POINT OUT, FIRST OF ALL ON THIS IS NONE OF THE TREES THAT WE ARE REMOVING PROPOSING TO REMOVE ARE IN EVEN A GOOD CONDITION.

THEY'RE ALL IN FAIR CONDITION OR EVEN POOR.

UH, AGAIN, ONE IS DEAD.

AND, UH, WELL, UM, AND THEN I JUST KIND OF WANNA SHOW YOU BRIEFLY THE WHAT'S WHAT IT'S GONNA BE.

AND SO, UH, THIS IS A IGNORE THE RADIO SHACK AND THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT AROUND ANYMORE.

I THINK THE ARCHITECT USE THAT BECAUSE YOU, HE CAN , RIGHT? YOU GONNA GET SUED BY RADIO SHACK.

UM, BUT, UH, YOU, YOU CAN SEE WHAT THE, THE, THE, THE DEVELOPMENT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE.

AND THE REALITY IS, IF, IF WE HAD TO GO BACK AND LIKE, CHANGE THE SITE PLAN BECAUSE OF A TREE, IT SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGES EVERYTHING YOU WERE LOOKING AT BREAKING THE BUILDING APART AND MAKES THE SITE, UM, RELATIVELY UNFEASIBLE TO WORK OUT.

SO, UM, WITH THAT, I ALSO, UM, HAVE WITH ME, UH, JOE, UM, ZAKI ZAKI, UH, CERTIFIED TREE ARBORIST, AND, UH, HE WALKED OUT THERE AND, AND LOOKED AT ALL THE TREES AND, UH, WE'RE HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU, YOU MIGHT HAVE.

HERITAGE TREES, THEY'RE LIKE IN BAD CONDITION OR NOT, YOU KNOW, GOOD CONDITION.

OKAY, LET'S START WITH, UM, MR. CHAIRMAN.

I MEAN, EXCUSE ME.

USED TO BE CHAIRMAN COMM, COMMISSIONER COSGROVE, ONCE UPON A TIME.

SO I, I, I DON'T WANT TO BE DISMISSIVE OF THE FACT THAT WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE 43% OF, OF THE HERITAGE TREES ON THE SITE, RIGHT.

HOWEVER, AND, AND I AM COW GROVE ABOVE THE TREES, BUT THE LAYOUT OF THIS SITE WITH THE RESTRICTIONS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, I'VE LOOKED AT IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN BECAUSE I LIKE TO SAY, WHY DON'T YOU DO THIS? WHY DON'T YOU DO THAT? AND, UH, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING .

I MEAN, I, I, I MEAN, I, I, I DON'T HAVE, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE, I WISH I COULD SAY TO YOU GUYS, NO, NO, AND NO, AND, AND, AND I CAN'T, SO NOT YOU COMMISSIONER MAG.

I'M GOOD.

COMMISSIONER MOS.

UM, NOW YOU DID SAY THAT, UM, MOST OF THE

[00:45:01]

CORRECT.

YOU DID SAY THAT THE ONE, THAT'S THE ONES THAT'S BEING REMOVED.

THERE'S, THERE'S TWO THAT ARE PRO PROPOSED TO BE REMOVED.

THE, THE THIRD ONE IS, IS ALREADY DEAD, SO MM-HMM.

, UM, YOU CAN SPEAK TO TWO.

ONE WAS IN LOW FAIR, AND I BELIEVE ONE WAS IN POOR CONDITION, BUT NEITHER OF WHICH WERE REALLY GREAT TREES AND MM-HMM.

POST OAKS IN PARTICULAR AREN'T THAT REALLY TOLERANT OF, OF IMPACT.

SO WITH EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S GOING AROUND AND ON THE WEST END SIDE, WE WERE ABLE TO INCORPORATE A LOT OF ADDITIONAL UNDERSIZED STORED CREDITS TO OFFSET THAT.

SO, UH, WE DID THE BEST OF WHAT WE HAD WITH THE CONSTRAINTS, BUT ALSO TRIED TO TARGET THOSE REMOVALS BASED ON THE MARGINAL CONDITION OF THOSE TREES AS WELL.

COMMISSIONER OLIVER, COULD YOU BRING BACK UP THE, UH, I GUESS THE, THE SLIDE WHERE YOU SHOW, YOU'RE GONNA BE PLANTING ALL THE, UH, I GUESS NEW LANDSCAPING IN LIEU OF THE, THE TREES THAT ARE BEING REMOVED? BECAUSE I DON'T, I DIDN'T HAVE THAT IN MY PACKET, SO OH, THIS ONE? YEAH.

YEAH, THERE IT IS.

JUST WANTED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT REAL QUICK.

SO, YEAH, I MEAN, GIVEN THE FACT THAT THIS, LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE A LOT OF OPTIONS TO WORK WITH WHEN IT COMES TO PLACEMENT OF THE BUILDING, AND I SEE THAT YOU DID TAKE SOME MEASURES TO PRESERVE SOME OF THE, THE TREES, OBVIOUSLY.

AND SO, AND THEN WITH ALL THE LANDSCAPING THAT'S GONNA BE GOING IN, UH, TO REPLACE SOME OF THAT WITH NEW HEALTHY TREES, THEN I, I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT I, I CAN ADD TO THIS TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG HERE.

SO I, I THINK IT'S FINE.

AND I'M, I'M, I'M, I'M GOOD.

I GUESS MR. DALE? YES, I HAD I JUST ONE COMMENT ON, ON THE CHART MM-HMM.

IN THE ANALYSIS WHERE IT'S TOTAL TREES AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S 67 TREES TOTAL THERE IN THE, UH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE BREAKDOWN.

AND THEN 32 ARE SAVED AND THEN IT SHOWS 170% AND THAT, THAT'S GIVING THEM THE CREDIT FOR THE UNDERSTORY TREES INTO THAT.

UH, CUZ THEY'RE NOT SAVING 170% OF THE TOTAL TREES.

67, THEY'RE, THEY'RE TAKING OUT ABOUT HALF THE TREES THERE.

SOMETIME UNDER TOTAL TREES, THIS PART RIGHT HERE.

SO YEAH, THAT MAKES IT A LITTLE CONFUSING FOR US WHEN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT SURE.

I, I KNOW THAT, THAT YOU MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, IN ANOTHER PART OF THE DOCUMENT ABOUT THEY'VE GOT SOME, SOME CREDITS AND THINGS, BUT IT JUST MADE IT A LITTLE CONFUSING FOR ME AND KINDA SKEWS IT A LITTLE BIT .

WELL, THAT, THAT WAS JUST MY COMMENT ON THAT.

I GUESS I'M KIND OF WHERE MR. COSGROVE WAS.

I, I'D LIKE TO, I'D PREFER TO SAVE THE TREES, BUT WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE EASEMENTS AND SO FORTH AND, UM, ON JUST A SEVEN ACRE TRACT AND YOU'RE TR AND THEN SEEING WHAT YOU'RE GONNA BUILD, WHICH WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, THE RENDERINGS, THAT, THAT DOES HELP A LOT.

BUT I GUESS I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, GOING FORWARD, I, WE'RE NOT GONNA FIND A TREE IN LEANDER THAT HASN'T BEEN DAMAGED IN THE LAST TWO YEARS.

I MEAN, I'VE GOT A HUNDRED AND IT'S AT LEAST 120 YEAR OLD POST OAK IN MY YARD THAT IT ACTUALLY WEATHERED THE STORM BETTER THAN ALL THE REST OF THEM.

THE LIVE OAKS TOOK A BIG HIT, BUT I WAS ABLE TO SALVAGE MOST OF THE LIVE OAKS.

AND THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THE POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IS, UM, STORM DAMAGE WAS MENTIONED AS ONE OF THE REASONS, AND I THINK THAT ONCE THE TRIGGS EXIST IN A, WHERE THEY'VE HAD SOME PRUNING AND SOME CARE AND SOME IRRIGATION, MAYBE SOME OF THEM COULD SURVIVE.

NOW, YOUR SITUATION, I REALIZE THAT IT'S A, IT'S NOT JUST THE STORM DAMAGE, IT'S ALSO THE LAYOUT OF THAT PROPERTY WITH THE EASEMENTS AND, AND LOOKING AT WHAT YOU'RE PUTTING THERE.

SO I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT, BUT I, I WOULD HATE TO USE STORM DAMAGE AS AN EXCUSE GOING FORWARD TO TAKE OUT HERITAGE TREES BECAUSE MOST OF THEM HAVE HAD SOME SORT OF CANOPY DAMAGE AND, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM CAN COME BACK.

SO, ALL RIGHT, THAT'S MY 2 CENTS WORTH AND IT'S AN ACTION ITEM.

I'LL SECOND.

DISCUSS AND CONSIDER ACTION ON TREE REMOVAL CASE TRP 23 0 0 16 REGARDING REMOVAL OF A SIGNIFICANT TREE ASSOCIATED WITH THE BRUSHY CREEK RETAIL FLOODPLAIN DEVELOPMENT PROJECT.

MOTION'S BEEN MO UH, MADE TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MAY AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER OLIVER IN FAVOR.

[17. Discuss and consider action on Tree Removal Case TRP-23-0016 regarding removal of a Significant Tree associated with the Brushy Creek Retail Floodplain Development Project, generally located at US 183 and Metro Dr. Leander, Williamson County, Texas. Staff Presentation Applicant Presentation Discussion Consider Action]

GENERALLY LOCATED AT US 180 3 IN METRO DRIVE, LEANDER WILLIAMSON COUNTY, TEXAS STAFF PRESENTATION.

COREY DELL WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT.

OKAY, AGAIN,

[00:50:01]

UM, SO THIS IS THE FINAL STEP IN, UH, THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

UH, THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED REQUEST THAT YOU'VE SEEN NOT, WELL, I GUESS IT'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT, BUT YOU'VE SEEN BEFORE, UH, THERE WERE REQUESTING TO REMOVE ONE SIGNIFICANT TREE THAT IS A 21 INCH CALIPER ELM TREE DUE TO THE SITE GRADING NEEDED FOR IMPROVED DRAINAGE AND LATER SITE DEVELOPMENT.

AGAIN, THE COMPOSITE ZONING ORDINANCE, UH, LISTS THE REMOVAL OF SIGNIFICANT TREES GREATER THAN 18 CALIBER INCHES, UH, TO REQUIRE THE APPROVAL OF THE PLANNING, UH, AND ZONING COMMISSION OR AN ALTERNATIVE TREE PRESERVATION PLAN, UH, WHERE, UH, UH, APPLICABLE AND, UM, PRACTICAL, UH, A CONCEPTUAL SITE PLAN WAS PROVIDED, UH, BASED ON RESPONSE, UH, THE LAST TIME IT WAS AT THIS COMMISSION.

UH, SO THAT WAS INCLUDED IN YOUR, UH, AGENDA PACKET.

UM, SO YOU HAD THAT TO REVIEW.

UH, TO KIND OF SET THE STAGE FOR THIS REQUEST TO THE NORTH IS A, UH, TRANSIT, UH, IT'S A PART OF THE TRANS, UH, THE, UH, SMART CODE.

IT IS IN A POD, UH, IT'S CONDITIONAL, UH, CONVENTIONAL DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT.

IT IS UNDEVELOPED.

LET'S SEE, TO THE EAST IS ALSO A POD.

IT'S LC TWO A.

UM, TO THE SOUTH IS ADDITIONAL, UH, PUD, WHICH IS THE TR IN THE TRANSIT-ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT.

IT IS ALSO CON, UH, CONVENTIONAL DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT.

UH, IT IS ALSO UNDEVELOPED, AND TO THE WEST IS ALSO A PUD.

UH, IT'S GC THREE C IS THE BASE ZONING AND IT IS COMMERCIAL.

THIS PROPERTY IS BOUND, UH, BY US 180 3 ON THE WEST SIDE AND CAPITAL METRO, UH, RAILROAD ON THE EAST SIDE.

THE PROPERTY IS NEAR THE CAP METRO STATION, AS WELL AS THE NORTHLINE DEVELOPMENT.

THIS PROPERTY CONTAINS SIGNIFICANT DRAINAGE CONCERNS DUE TO THE PROXIMITY TO THE FLOOD PLAIN.

UH, PRIOR TO THIS TREE REMOVAL REQUEST, THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED A FLOODPLAIN DEVELOPMENT PERMIT TO CORRECT THEIR GRADING AND DRAINAGE TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE ISSUES.

UM, A LITTLE BIT OF PROPERTY HISTORY ON 9 22, UH, 2022, THE, UH, TREE REMOVAL PERMIT WAS PRESENTED TO THIS COMMISSION AND DEI DENIED.

UH, BASED ON THE LACK OF INFORMATION REGARDING FUTURE COMMERCIAL LAYOUT.

THE APPLICANT WAS NOT PRESENT FOR THE P UH, P AND Z FOR QUESTIONING.

UH, ADDITIONALLY, THIS PROPERTY HAS ACCESS ONTO 180 3.

THIS PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY UNDEVELOPED, AS STATED BEFORE.

UH, SO IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET, UM, IT CALLS OUT THE, UH, WAY OUT OF THE HERE, HERE'S THE 21 INCH AMERICAN ELM.

UH, AS PART OF THE MITIGATION PROCESS FOR THE FLOOD DEVELOPMENT, UH, PERMIT, THE APPLICANT AND CITY WILL ENTER INTO A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, WHICH IS ONGOING.

THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WILL ALLOW THE MITIGATION REQUIREMENTS INCURRED DURING THE FLOOD, UH, DEVELOPMENT PROCESS TO BE DELAYED UNTIL THE TIME OF, UH, SITE DEVELOPMENT SUBMITTAL.

UH, AND THEY'LL MITIGATE IT AND ADDRESS IT THERE.

ALTHOUGH MITIGATION OF REPLACEMENT INCHES OR USE OF TREE CREDITS WILL BE DELAYED AT THIS TIME.

REMOVAL OF THE 21 CALIBER INCH ELM, UH, REQUIRES THIS COMMISSION'S APPROVAL.

UM, THEY ALSO HAVE A LOT OF, UH, MITIGATION CREDITS ON SITE THAT THEY'RE PRESERVING AS WELL.

SO IT NEGATED THE MITIGATION.

SO, UH, STAFF IS AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONING.

THE APPLICANT IS HERE IF, UH, FOR A SHORT PRESENTATION, IF THEY HAVE ONE MORE QUESTIONING.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

UM, JACOB MELEY WITH CO ENGINEERS.

SORRY THAT WE MISSED, UH, THE LAST ONE, UH, P Z MEETING.

UH, BUT I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO GO OVER THANK YOU, COREY, FOR, UM, PRESENTING THIS.

UH, JUST A COUPLE MORE THINGS.

I, I WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT, UM, AS HE MENTIONED THAT THIS WAS A PART OF A FLOOD PLAIN, UH, DEVELOPMENT PERMIT THAT WAS SUBMITTED IN, UM, 2021, EARLY 20, ACTUALLY EARLY 2020.

AND SO THIS IS SOLELY, UH, LATER ON, THE STAFF RECOMMENDED THAT WE SUBMIT A TREE REMOVAL PERMIT, UH, FOR THAT ONE, UM, SIGNIFICANT TREE THAT'S LOCATED ON THE SITE.

I ALSO WANTED JUST TO POINT OUT THE AREA THAT WE'RE GOING TO REMAIN UNDISTURBED AND GREEN, AND THEN THE AREA THAT WILL BE IN FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.

AND THE TREE IS LOCATED IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT.

UM, AND THIS IS GOING ALONG JUST WITH

[00:55:01]

THE BLOOD PLAN DEVELOPMENT PERMIT.

UM, AND SO LATER ON WHEN A SITE SITE PLAN PERMIT WILL COME UP, UM, UH, OTHER, UH, OTHER ISSUES CAN BE PRESENTED.

BUT THIS IS THE, THE TREE REMOVAL PERMIT IS JUST FOR THE, FOR THE FLOODPLAIN.

AND OUR INTENTION RIGHT NOW IS TO RAISE THE GRADE ON THE, IN THE ORANGE OVER THERE.

SO THAT'S, UH, IT, IT, UH, IT, IT HELPS WITH THE DRAINAGE CONCERNS THAT COREY MENTIONED.

SO, UM, THAT'S THE PLAN THAT YOU SAW EARLIER, UM, WITH THE ONE TREE AND IT'S RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE.

SO WITH FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, UM, UM, IT, IT, IT WOULD, IT WOULD NEED TO BE REMOVED.

REMOVED, UM, JUST CUZ OF THE LOCATION ACCESS CONCERNS AND WHATNOT.

UH, THIS IS THE TREE FOR MORE CONTEXT AND, UM, PICTURES AT DIFFERENT ANGLES.

SO YOU CAN SEE, SO THIS IS THE SITE PLAN HE ALREADY SHOWED.

SO, AND THEN THIS ISN'T A SITE DEVELOPMENT PERMIT, BUT JUST WANTED TO SHOW SOME POTENTIAL.

UM, YOU KNOW, RENDERINGS, NONE OF THIS IS, UM, GONNA BE SET IN STONE, BUT JUST, JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME IMAGERY OF, OF A SMALL SITE THAT COULD POTENTIALLY GO.

THERE IS A LONG SKINNY LOT.

IT LOOKS, UM, LONG AND SKINNY, BUT IT IS DEEP ENOUGH FOR A POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.

UM, AND SO, UM, THAT'S WHAT PRESENTING, UM, JEFF MUSGROVE, THE OWNER IS HERE AS WELL.

UM, JEFF.

HI, I'M JEFF MUSGROVE WITH TRANSIT VILLAGE INVESTMENTS.

WE PURCHASED THE ORIGINAL 150 ACRES AROUND THE ROUND CAP METRO.

ROBIN REMEMBERS, IT WAS A VERY LONG TIME AGO.

THIS IS ONE OF THE LAST REMAINING SITES THAT WE STILL OWN.

UH, MOST OF THE OTHER PROPERTY HAS BEEN SOLD TO OTHER DEVELOPERS.

OUR ROLE IS TO GET PROPERTY READY FOR DEVELOPMENT AND ANYBODY THAT WOULD COME IN TO LOOK AT THIS SITE AND ANYBODY THAT HAS LOOKED AT IT SO FAR AND SAID, WELL, WHAT CAN WE DO? WELL, THEN WE STARTED THE PROCESS TO GO THROUGH FLOOD PLAIN MITIGATION.

AND THE ONLY WAY TO GET PAST THAT AND TO REALLY KNOW WHAT CAN BE PLACED ON THE PROPERTY IS TO GET PAST THIS ONE TREE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.

, I'M HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, BUT THAT'S KINDA WHERE WE ARE.

APPRECIATE IT.

UH, MR. DALE, I'M GONNA TAKE PRIVILEGE OF THE CHAIR AND ASK THE FIRST QUESTION JUST BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER.

SURE.

ON THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY, WHERE IT MENTIONS, UM, UNDER STAFF RECOMMENDATION, WHERE MM-HMM.

, IT SAYS, UM, THERE'S NO ZONING REQUEST AND NO OFFICIAL SITE DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.

IS THAT A PROBLEM, UH, WITH US GOING FORWARD WITH THIS? IT'S A CONCERN.

UH, CAN WE EVEN DO IT? YOU CAN.

YOU CAN DO IT.

UM, I GUESS, UH, THE CONCERN THAT CAME UP IS THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A DESIGNATED ZONING.

IT'S CONVENTIONAL DEVELOPMENT, SO IT COULD, HAS TO BE REZONED BEFORE THEY CAN DO ANYTHING.

UM, AND THEN THERE'S NO SITE PLAN.

WE'RE JUST USED TO GETTING IT ONCE THEY'RE AT THAT STAGE.

BUT IF WE MAKE THIS DECISION, IT IS A VALID DECISION.

FUTURE LAND USE MAP DESIGNATION IS A MULTI-USE PRIORITY CORRIDOR.

SO THEY HAVE ACCESS TO LOCAL COMMERCIAL, LOCAL OFFICE, GENERAL COMMERCIAL, BECAUSE IT'S PRIORITY, THEY COULD PUT IT IN A POD.

IT'S JUST, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT LAYOUT WILL BE.

THE ONE THAT WAS PROVIDED IN HERE WAS, UH, CONCEPTUAL, UH, AS NOTED BY THE NOTE THAT THEY ADDED HERE.

UM, SO I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF WITH THE COMMISSION, IT, IT COULD BE SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WHEN STAFF ACTUALLY SEES THE DEVELOPMENT WHEN THEY SELL IT OFF OR DO THE ZONING.

IT COULD BE HIGHER INTENSITY, IT COULD BE LOWER INTENSITY.

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.

THAT'S WHY IT WAS A CONCERN, SO.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

JUST MAKING A, YEAH, MAKING A COMMENT.

WELL, GOOD INFORMATION TO HAVE.

UH, COMMISSIONER OLIVER, YOU WANNA START? YEAH.

THANKS FOR BRINGING THAT UP, CUZ I WAS GONNA BRING UP THAT AS WELL, CUZ I, I, I DID WANNA UNDERSTAND LIKE WHAT IS THE CURRENT ZONING SINCE IT HASN'T REALLY BEEN REQUESTED FOR THAT YET.

SO, UM, SO YOU'VE TALKED, YOU SHOWED SOME RENDERINGS AND YOU HAVE SOME POTENTIAL SITE PLANS HERE.

UH, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR VISION FOR THIS PARTICULAR STRIP OF LAND, GIVEN IT'S UNIQUE, YOU KNOW, LOCATION, ITS SIZE AND, AND YOU KNOW, THE LIMITATIONS YOU HAVE WITH THE FLOODPLAIN.

THIS IS A CRAZY DIFFICULT PIECE OF PROPERTY.

I I CAN, I CAN TELL, UM, IT'S JUST SUPER SKINNY, UH, FRONT.

I'M THINKING TRAIN DEPOT.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE THINKING? I MEAN, WE ALREADY HAVE THAT, RIGHT? I THINK IT'S BEEN DONE.

UH, NO, THE, BECAUSE IT'S

[01:00:01]

ON 180 3 MM-HMM.

, IT HAS TO HAVE A TEXT DRIVEWAY WHERE THE DRIVEWAY IS SHOWN IS THE ONLY PLACE WE CAN PUT A DRIVEWAY ON THAT PROPERTY.

THERE OR FURTHER NORTH.

SO TO ACCESS THE CORNER WITH IT'S THE MOST VISIBLE, WE'VE GOTTA BE ABLE TO GET THERE.

AND BECAUSE THE PROPERTY IS SO NARROW, YOU CAN'T GET AROUND THE TREE WITHOUT SOME SOMETHING PRETTY SIGNIFICANT OR VERY DIFFICULT.

AND TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP THE SITE.

WE, WE ORIGINALLY LOOKED AT THIS PROPERTY AND SAY, WELL, LET'S JUST, LET'S, LET'S DO THIS MUCH FLOODPLAIN MITIGATION AS WE CAN AND, AND MAXIMIZE THE PROPERTY.

AND THEN WE DECIDE, NO, THAT'S, THAT'S JUST NOT APPROPRIATE.

UM, LET'S PRESERVE THE TREES THAT ARE CLOSE TO THE CREEK, BOTH ON THE SOUTH SIDE AND THE NORTH SIDE.

THAT'S WHERE THE HEAVIER TREE COVER IS.

AND UNFORTUNATELY THERE'S ONE FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT TREE I'M CALLING THE SOUTH END.

UH, THERE, THERE'S NOT A LOT YOU CAN DO WITH THIS PROPERTY.

UNDERSTOOD.

WE BELIEVE THIS IS REASONABLE.

AND, UH, MAYBE, UH, MAYBE A FAST FOOD WOULD COME ALONG AND SAY, OH GOSH, I'LL DO THAT AND I'LL RECONFIGURE MY STANDARD LAYOUT.

BUT I, I'VE GOTTA KNOW WHAT I CAN WORK WITH.

SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE KIND OF STUCK, BASICALLY.

YOU REALLY NEED TO GET THIS STEP TO FIGURE OUT THEN WHAT KIND OF COMMERCIAL ZONING YOU WOULD WANT TO PUT THERE.

I'M ASSUMING COMMERCIAL ZONING OR, OR EVEN LIGHT OFFICE OR SOMETHING.

I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES SENSE.

YEAH, I'M, I'M PRETTY SURE MULTIFAMILY AREN'T GONNA WORK.

BUT ALL KIDDING ASIDE, YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT YOU, YOU ORIGINALLY HAD ABOUT, ABOUT 150 ACRES, AND THIS IS LIKE THE LAST SECTION THAT YOU'VE GOT LEFT.

WAS THAT PART OF NORTHLINE OR IS THAT SOME OF THAT? NO, WE, WE ACTUALLY SOLD NORTHLINE HALF OF THEIR PROPERTY.

ROBIN REMEMBERS THAT.

WE, WE USED TO HAVE EVERYTHING FROM ABOUT HALFWAY UP NORTHLINE MM-HMM.

, UH, WEST OF WHAT'S NOW CALLED MAIN STREET ALL THE WAY DOWN SOUTH OF HIRO.

UM, IT WENT ALMOST TO 2243 RIGHT CLOSE.

SO IT CAN, WE'RE KIND OF PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU REALLY GONNA NEED TO HAVE SOME CLARITY ON WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH THIS.

EXACTLY.

WITH THE FLOOD PLAIN MITIGATION, WE DON'T WANNA WASTE ANYBODY'S TIME.

AND I'M SORRY TO GO THROUGH THIS WITH, WITH YOU FOLKS THAT'S, THAT'S FAIR AND WASTE OF YOUR TIME, BUT EVERYBODY IS ASKED THE SAME QUESTION OVER AND OVER.

WELL, WHAT CAN WE DO? AND, AND I DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE RULE ON THIS.

WELL, FIRST OF ALL, YOU'RE NOT WASTING OUR TIME AND THIS IS, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE PROCESS.

SO I I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.

I MEAN, I, I THINK I'D, YOU KNOW, FOR ME, I'M GOOD.

I'LL LET THE REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS, YOU KNOW, SAY WHAT THEY NEED TO SAY AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE.

VERY GOOD.

COMMISSIONER MOSS? I'M GOOD.

UM, I, I JUST KNOW THAT ONE LITTLE TREE STANDING STRONG , SO, UH, IT KIND OF TICKLES ME, BUT I KNOW.

CRAZY TREE, THE NEXT STORM YES.

MEAN, BECAUSE THE WAY THE LAND IS, I I SEE WHY IT'S JUST LIKE STICKING LIKE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE WHERE YOU CAN'T GO AROUND IT OR ABOVE IT OR ANYTHING TO GET ANYTHING DONE.

SO, UM, REALLY, I, I, I GET IT AND I, I, I DON'T HAVE ANY COMMENTS.

GREAT.

COMMISSIONER MAY, HAVING SAID ON THE ORIGINAL CASE, UM, THERE WAS NO APPLICANT PRESENTATION AND IT WAS PRESENTED AS FLOOD MITIGATION AND IT WAS LIKE, SO WE'RE GONNA DIG A DITCH AND KNOCKED DOWN A TREE.

, YOU KNOW, IT, IT WASN'T EXPLAINED WELL.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE REASON WHY IT WAS DENIED IN THE PAST.

IT WASN'T THAT ANYONE WAS REALLY OPPOSED TO REMOVING THE TREE, BUT NOW THAT IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED AS TO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, I THINK WE, IT'S A REASONABLE REQUEST.

I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT BEING HERE.

ROBIN HAS APPROPRIATELY SCOLDED ME.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

WE SAID WE WOULDN'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE AGAIN.

DIDN'T INTERRUPT.

COMMISSIONER COSGROVE, I, I KNOW EVERY DEVELOPER ASKS YOU WHAT YOU CAN DO THERE, BECAUSE THAT WAS MY QUESTION.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

AND, AND UNUSUAL REQUEST, UNUSUAL PROCESS, UNUSUAL PIECE OF PROPERTY.

BUT I DON'T THINK THE REQUEST IS, IS OUT OF LINE GIVEN WHY.

I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO AND, AND SELL TO SOMEBODY TO COME IN AND, AND DEVELOP THIS PIECE.

UM, WOULD I SUGGEST WE DO THIS EVERY WEEK? NO.

NO, BUT I THINK IT'S OKAY HERE.

ANYBODY ELSE WANNA ADD ANYTHING? OKAY.

IT'S AN ACTION ITEM.

SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER OLIVER.

I'LL SECOND.

MOTION MADE BY COMMISSIONER MAY.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

NUMBER 18,

[18. Discussion regarding the Sign Ordinance]

DISCUSSION REGARDING

[01:05:01]

THE SIGN ORDINANCE.

I'M HOPING THE POWERPOINT COMES BACK.

I'M ASSUMING THAT SHE, SO THIS, YEAH, THIS IS ME.

SO, UM, THIS ITEM IS, UH, AN UPDATE, UM, ON SOME OF THE CHANGES WE'RE WORKING ON WITH THE SIGN ORDINANCE.

SO WE'VE GONE THROUGH, UM, AN EXERCISE OF LOOKING AT, UM, ALL THE VARIANCE REQUESTS WE'VE RECEIVED, UM, ALL THE MASTER SIGN PLANS AND PODS AND THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE TO KINDA WORK AROUND THE ORDINANCE SO WE CAN MAKE, UM, CHANGES.

SO PEOPLE NO LONGER HAVE TO GO THROUGH THOSE EXTRA STEPS.

AND I'M HOPING COREY WILL BRING ME THAT CLICKER.

, I WAS LOOKING AT YOU.

UM, OKAY.

SO, UM, SO RIGHT NOW WE ARE WORKING, AS Y'ALL HAVE HEARD, UM, TO REMOVE ALL OF THE OUTDATED PROVISIONS.

WE'RE LOOKING AT NEW STANDARDS, UM, AND WE'VE TALKED TO A LOT OF JURISDICTIONS ABOUT RECENT CHANGES THEY'VE MADE, AND WE'RE ALSO WORKING WITH THE COUNTY WHEN IT COMES TO POLITICAL SIGNS.

UM, SO THE, THE THREE WAYS THAT, UM, WE MAKE CHANGES TO THE ORDINANCE, UM, ADMINISTRATIVELY AND THROUGH COMMISSIONS IS A POD, A MASTER SIGN PLAN, AND A VARIANCE.

UM, SO I HAVE SOME EXAMPLES OF, UM, PUDS THAT WE'VE APPROVED IN THE PAST.

WE'VE CHANGED THE RULES.

SO THE BIGGEST ONE I HAVE IS THE HONDA DEALERSHIP.

UM, THEY REQUESTED A PYLON SIGN AND OUR ORDINANCE LIMITED IT TO 25 FEET AND THEY REQUESTED 40 AND THE COMMISSION AND COUNCIL APPROVED IT.

SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE A STATEMENT LIKE, WE THINK THIS IS.

I WANT AN EVENT SIGN PACKAGE.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE LOOKING TO CHANGE IN THE ORDINANCE.

UM, WE'VE ALSO HAD CASES, UM, OF RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITIES LIKE, UM, BLUFF VIEW, I BELIEVE, AND IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN TREVISO AND BRYSON, THEY ALL INCORPORATED SOME SIGN STANDARDS THAT, UM, ALLOWED DIFFERENT MATERIALS IN WAYFINDING, UM, THAT WOULDN'T BE PERMITTED BY THE CODE.

SO WE'RE INCORPORATING, UM, STUFF LIKE THAT.

UH, WITH THAT WE ALSO DO MASTER SIGN PLANS.

SO THAT'S WHERE STAFF GETS A, A PLAN AND WE'RE ABLE TO APPROVE ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS OR, UM, TAKING A SIGN SIZE AND YOU CAN KIND OF SPREAD IT ACROSS THE DIFFERENT SIGN TYPES.

SO IF THEY CAN HAVE LIKE A HUNDRED SQUARE FOOT MONUMENT SIGN, BUT THEY WANNA DO AN EXTRA, UM, LIKE BIGGER WALL SIGN, THEY CAN MOVE THE NUMBERS AROUND.

SO WHAT WE SEE A LOT OF IS, UM, ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS.

SO THE, THE PICTURES ON THE SCREEN ARE DIFFERENT SUBDIVISIONS THAT DON'T MEET THE TYPICAL MONUMENT SIGN REQUIREMENT, WHERE YOU HAVE A, A MASONRY SURROUND THAT GOES AROUND THE SIGN.

SO IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, LIKE DIVINE LAKE, THAT'S A COR 10.

THAT'S THE, THE MATERIAL THAT'S NOT PERMITTED BY OUR ORDINANCE, BUT IT'S STILL A, AN APPROPRIATE SIGN.

IT LOOKS NICE.

SO STAFF ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED IT AND WE KIND OF DOCUMENT THESE THINGS LIKE, HEY, THIS IS SOMETHING TO CHANGE ABOUT THE CODE.

UM, SAME THING ABOUT, UM, CRYSTAL SPRINGS.

YOU CAN SEE THERE'S NO LIKE BRICKS AROUND, AROUND THE SIGN AND THE RETREAT AT HERO WAY HAS A DIFFERENT MATERIAL ON IT.

UM, THE OTHER THING WE'VE LOOKED AT IS, UM, THE WAY SIGNS ARE LIT, AND I THINK I'VE, I SAY THIS TO YOU EVERY TIME WE TALK ABOUT SIGNS, IS, UM, THE HALO, HALO LIT LETTERS, UM, THE HAVEN, HAVEN OAKS ONE, UM, THE WAY THEY HAVE THE SIGNS HERE, THEY HAVE LIGHTS BEHIND THE LETTERS SO IT GLOWS FROM BEHIND, BUT IT'S NOT A DISTRACTION OF DRIVERS.

UM, THAT WASN'T A COMMON PRACTICE WHEN OUR ORDINANCE WAS CREATED.

SO IT'S NOT THERE.

SO WE'RE PROPOSING TO CHANGE THE ORDINANCE TO, TO ADD THAT, UM, LIGHTING TYPE.

UM, THESE ARE OTHER EXAMPLES OF COMMERCIAL SIGNS THAT WOULD NOT WORK WITH OUR ORDINANCE, BUT WITH A CHANGE THEY WOULD, THEY'RE, THEY'RE STILL NICE LOOKING, UM, BUT THEY DON'T MEET THE MATERIAL REQUIREMENTS.

IT'S LIKE THIS, THIS ONE, THE, THE DISTRICT 56, IT DOESN'T HAVE A MASONRY SURROUND OR VETERANS.

YOU KIND OF GET THE IDEA ON THAT ONE.

UM, THE FLAGS, WE DON'T ALLOW LOGOS ON FLAGS, SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THAT CUZ THE BUILDERS ARE DOING IT.

UM, DIRECTORY SIGNS AREN'T IN OUR ORDINANCE AND WE'RE ADDING THAT.

AND THEN, UM, MODEL HOME SIGNS.

WE'RE MAKING A FEW TWEAKS TO THAT PART OF THE ORDINANCE, BUT THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WE'VE APPROVED, UM, THROUGH A MASTER SIGN PLAN.

UM, SOMETHING ELSE WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT, UM, WE HAVEN'T APPROVED IS ADDING A MOR MORE AFFORDABLE SIGN OPTION.

UM, THIS IS SOMETHING WE SAW THAT ROUND ROCK ADOPTED, UM, IN LIEU OF A MONUMENT SIGN.

CAUSE THAT CAN BE EXPENSIVE FOR A SMALL BUSINESS.

UM, THIS IS A MORE AFFORDABLE SIGN TYPE THAT, UM, IS STILL ATTRACTIVE, BUT IT'S A LOWER COST.

SO WE'D ANTICIPATE THIS KIND OF IN AN INFILL SITE, NOT LIKE, UM, CRYSTAL VILLAGE, YOU KNOW, LIKE A BIG DEVELOPMENT.

BUT MAYBE ALONG CRYSTAL FALLS, SOME OF THE DENTISTS, YOU KNOW, THE SMALLER BUSINESSES.

AND THEN THE BIG THING THAT, UM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT NAMED THE EVENT SIGN PACKAGE, UM, THE, THE BIGGEST REQUEST WE GET, UM, IS SWOOPER FLAGS, HUMAN SIGNS, BANNERS.

SO WHAT WE KIND OF CAME UP WITH WAS, UM, ALLOWING A CUSTOMER COME IN AND SAY, HAVING A GRAND OPENING.

[01:10:01]

AND THEY SUBMIT ONE PERMIT AND THEY LIST ALL THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE GONNA DO FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME.

SO IT KIND OF, IT ALLOWS, IT, IT'S FOR SPECIAL EVENTS.

UM, AND WE'RE NOT SEEING SUPER FLAGS EVERY PROPERTY, UM, FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR, YOU KNOW, THAT AREN'T WELL MAINTAINED.

THIS ONE'S BEEN THE HARDEST ONE TO KIND OF WRAP OUR HEADS AROUND, UM, PUTTING IT IN AN ORDINANCE, BUT WE THINK IT'S GONNA BE PRETTY HELPFUL, UM, FOR DEVELOPERS.

AND, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S IT FOR THE LATEST UPDATES.

SO I'M AVAILABLE IF Y'ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

UM, OUR NEXT STEP IS TO SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING AND WE'RE EXPECTING THAT PROBABLY IN AUGUST.

I HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU.

FIRST, UM, I HAD A QUESTION ON THE, UH, HEIGHT OR, YOU KNOW, LIKE USING THE HONDA SIGN AS AN EXAMPLE MM-HMM.

, HOW MUCH HIGHER ARE YOU GOING, UH, WITH THE NEW OR? OH, I DON'T HAVE THE NUMBER.

I GUESS I WAS HERE BEFORE, THE FIRST TIME I SERVED WHEN WE VOTED ON THAT SIGN.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS WE APPROVED THE, THE HEIGHT, UM, ODDLY ENOUGH IS BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT THE, UH, FREEWAY CURVES UP AS YOU'RE APPROACHING THEIR BUSINESS, IF THEY HAD HAD THE REGULAR SIGN, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE THEIR SIGN MM-HMM.

AND SO WE SAID, OH, WELL THAT IS A REASONABLE REQUEST.

AND WE, WE GRANTED THAT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD, I WOULD HATE TO SEE THE SIGNS GO TOO HIGH, JUST, YOU KNOW, LIKE IN, ON A REGULAR SITE, YOU KNOW, THAT WHERE THERE WASN'T A, THAT THAT MAKES SENSE.

SO THE, UM, THAT TALLER SIGN, THE PYLON, THAT SIGN TYPE'S ONLY ALLOWED ON THE TOLL ROAD WHERE WE HAVE THE ELEVATED LANES MM-HMM.

SO I THINK THAT'S A, A PRETTY SAFE ONE.

, UM, I'M NOT FINDING MY NUMBERS RIGHT NOW.

UM, WHEN, WHEN WE LOOKED AT OTHER CITIES, UM, WE FOUND THAT, UH, CEDAR PARKS RECENTLY KIND OF REDUCED THEIR SIGN HEIGHTS.

UM, I THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING.

THEY DON'T ALLOW PYLONS AT ALL.

SO I JUST KIND OF, I MOVED ON, UM, AND I, I TALKED TO THE, THE CITY OF ROUND ROCK AND THEY, THEY HAD SOME, SOME GOOD IDEAS WHERE THEY DID IT BASED ON THE SIZE OF YOUR DEVELOPMENT.

SO IF YOU HAD A, A PROJECT THAT WAS, UM, OVER FIVE ACRES IN SIZE, IT WAS A BIGGER PROJECT, SO YOU HAD A BIGGER, UM, LIKE, UH, GOSH, WHAT'S THE SIGN? THE, THE NAME LIKE A CENTER SIGN, THE MULTI-TENANT SIGNAGE THAT COMES WITH IT.

BUT, UH, WE'LL HAVE THOSE, THOSE NUMBERS TOGETHER.

I JUST DON'T HAVE 'EM IN FRONT OF ME.

CAN WE STRO OVER? DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? YEAH, I MEAN, I ACTUALLY, I WAS GONNA PIGGYBACK ON TOP OF THE HONDA ONE.

I, I THINK THERE IS SOME, YOU KNOW, LEGITIMACY TO HAVING A TALLER SIGN ALONG A MAJOR THOROUGHFARE, LIKE 180 3 A ROUND ROCK, OBVIOUSLY IS I 35, HUGE CORRIDOR.

UH, SO TO HAVE IT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, CEDAR PARK, I MEAN, I THINK THE TALLEST SON THEY PROBABLY HAVE IS THE HEB CENTER.

AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TALL THAT IS.

IT'S VERY TALL AND NOT PERMITTED BY THEIR ORDINANCE YET.

THEY, UM, WELL THEY, THEY DIDN'T EXIST.

I ASKED, I ASKED.

SO, UM, WHEN THEY INSTALLED IT, IT WAS A GOVERNMENT ENTITY AND THERE WAS NO HEIGHT LIMIT CUZ IT WAS THE CEDAR PARK CENTER AND NOW IT'S THE HEB CENTER.

GOT IT.

ISN'T THAT INTERESTING? THAT IS INTERESTING.

UM, OKAY.

SO THEY WORKED THEIR WAY AROUND THAT DID LOOPHOLE.

YEAH, THAT'S, UH, THEY PROBABLY DON'T WANT ME SHARING THEIR LOOPHOLE, BUT THE, THE POINT THOUGH IS THAT, THAT THAT SIGN DOES HAVE A NICE AESTHETIC TO IT.

IT'S, IT'S A STONE FACADE.

LIKE, BUT IF YOU'RE JUST GONNA GO A METAL PYLON THAT'S GONNA RUST OVER TIME AND KIND OF, YOU KNOW, BE WEATHERED.

MY MY NEXT QUESTION WAS GONNA BE MORE AROUND THE MAINTENANCE OF THESE SIGNS OR THE, THE OVERALL AESTHETIC OF THEM.

BECAUSE I KNOW LIKE IN SOME COMMUNITIES LIKE WESTLAKE NOW, GIVEN THEY DON'T ABUT TO LIKE A MAJOR, MAJOR HIGHWAY MM-HMM.

MAYBE 360.

BUT THAT'S REALLY, I MEAN, A SPACE THAT'S NOT A MAJOR HIGHWAY, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A ASSIGN ORDER.

I DON'T THINK ANYTHING BE OVER LIKE 15 FEET.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE VERY, VERY LIMITED AND I THINK THAT HAVE TO BE MADE OUTTA WOOD, QUITE FRANKLY.

THAT'S INTERESTING.

MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW.

UM, AT LEAST WHEN I'VE DRIVEN THROUGH THERE IN THE PAST, AND THIS HAS BEEN A LONG TIME AGO, HAVEN'T BEEN IN THAT AREA IN A LONG TIME, BUT I MEAN, I'VE, I'VE SEEN MOST SONS THAT LIVE LIKE THEY'RE MADE OF WOOD.

HMM.

UM, SO OBVIOUSLY THE MAINTENANCE HAS TO BE KEPT UP ON THAT.

BUT WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THE, UH, THE SMALLER, LIKE SMALL BUSINESS LINES YOU MENTIONED, I DO THINK ABOUT MAINTENANCE AND, AND KEEPING THESE UP BECAUSE IT'S NOT GONNA BE AS, AS A, UH, MORE OF A, UH, STURDY OR LONG TERM, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, MATERIAL THAT CAN, THAT CAN STAND AND, AND YOU KNOW, THE WEATHER AND THE ELEMENTS OF, OF THE TEXAS HEAT AND THE WINTERS AND, AND YOU KNOW, THE WIND AND THE RAIN AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF.

SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT KIND OF LIKE WE HAVE WITH SOME OF OUR LANDSCAPING ORDINANCES AND OUR COM COMPLIANCE AND I GUESS OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT, THAT THESE THINGS WOULD ALSO BE MAINTAINED AS PART OF THAT AS WELL.

THEY, THEY SHOULD BE.

AND UM, I THINK IT'S IN THE BUSINESS'S BEST INTEREST TO DO IT, BUT WE DID TH THIS SIGN TYPE IS ALLOWED IN OLD TOWN TODAY.

AND WE USED TO HAVE THAT SIGN IN FRONT OF THE OLD, UH, PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND IT HAD THIS, UM, BOTTOM PIECE THAT SAID PLANNING THAT, UM, ALWAYS ROTTED MM-HMM.

AND, AND FELL OFF.

SO WE HAVE VERY FAIR, INTIMATE EXPERIENCE WITH MAINTAINING THAT SIGN NOW WE HAVE A ROCK.

I DEFINITELY THINK THIS WOULD BE A GREAT, A GREAT SOLUTION FOR, YOU KNOW, THE OLD TOWN MASTER PLAN WHEN EVERYTHING COMES TOGETHER.

THE LAST ONE WAS JUST THE SIGN OF THE TEMPORARY SIGNS FLAGS.

I KNOW LIKE PARTICULARLY THERE'S LIKE ON SUNDAYS A LOT OF CHURCHES LIKE TO HAVE TEMPORARY SIGNS AND I BELIEVE MOST OF 'EM ARE PUTTING 'EM OUT THERE PROBABLY ILLEGAL AID THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE CITED IF THE CITY OF LANDER CHOSE

[01:15:01]

TO ENFORCE THAT.

SO IS THIS GOING TO, I GUESS, ALLOW THEM TO DO THAT IN THE FUTURE? OR DO THEY HAVE TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT? THIS WOULD BE A, A PERMITTED EVENT, RIGHT? YEAH.

SO THEY'D BE GETTING A PERMIT TO DO IT.

SO IT'D BE A PERMIT AND THEN LIKE EVERY SUNDAY WOULD BE AN EVENT.

SO IT HAVE TO BE LIKE A ONE EVENT.

YOU GET TWO WEEKS, FOUR TIMES A YEAR, TWO WEEKS, FOUR TIMES A YEAR.

INTERESTING.

SO, SO THEN THOSE WOULD, WHO WOULD PROBABLY PUT OUT EITHER A, A FRAME SIGN OR ONE OF THOSE, UH, LIKE SWOOPING FLAGS.

UH, EVERY SUNDAY WOULD STILL BE IN VIOLATION.

WELL, WHY CAN'T A CHURCH APPLY FOR A YEAR PERMIT TO PUT 'EM OUT EVERY SUNDAY? YEAH.

WELL, WHY CAN'T WE MAKE AN EXEMPTION FOR A CHURCH WHERE THEY CAN, THEY JUST COME TO YOU? THEY, THEY APPLY FOR A PERMIT MM-HMM.

, BUT IT'S ONLY GOOD FOR SUNDAYS AND IT'S GOOD FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR.

THEN THEY HAVE TO RENEW IT EVERY YEAR.

AND SO WE COULDN'T LIMIT IT TO JUST A CHURCH.

LIKE NONPROFITS SOMETHING.

I THINK IT HAVE TO BE ALL TO, TO BE YOU COULD YOU, YOU COULD LIMIT IT, I WOULD IMAGINE TO CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL WITH HOW WE LIMIT IT BECAUSE OF THE, UM, BUT THERE'S GOTTA, THERE'S GOTTA BE THERE, THERE, BUT THERE HAS TO BE A WAY TO, TO, THERE HAS TO BE A WORKAROUND THAT IF IF OR SOME SOMETHING WITH THEIR STATUS.

THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING BECAUSE LIKE IF HCCM, THEY, THE LOCAL FOOD PANTRY, IF THEY WANTED TO PUT A SIGN OUT TO DIRECT PEOPLE TO WHERE EITHER THEIR THRIFT STORE IS OR TO WHERE THEIR FOOD PANTRY IS, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD HAVE TO APPLY FOR SOMETHING AND, AND I MEAN THEY COULD DO LIKE A SANDWICH, BOARD SIGN, YOU KNOW, THE A-FRAME YEAH.

ONES THAT'S ALLOWED, THAT'S IN OUR ORDINANCE TODAY AND THAT, AND THAT'S ALLOWED.

SO THAT WOULD BE ALRIGHT.

I JUST WANTED TO ADDRESS THOSE THINGS.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? UH, UH, I HAVE A COUPLE OF 'EM HAVE QUESTIONS.

THE, UM, ALL THESE BANDED SIGNS AND SWOOPER SIGNS AND BANNERS, UH, WE HAVE A LOT OF WIND IN TEXAS MM-HMM.

AND I SEE THEM BLOWING EVERYWHERE.

WE'VE HAD THEM BLOW IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS QUITE OFTEN.

UH, AND THEY ALSO TEND TO PLACE THEM IN AREAS WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE HOA CAN'T PLANT A TREE THERE BECAUSE IT'S IN OR A FENCE BECAUSE IT'S REDUCES THE LINE OF SIGHT, BUT THEY PUT THESE BIG SIGNS UP WHERE YOU CAN'T SEE TRAFFIC AND IT COULD CAUSE ACCIDENTS.

NOT TO MENTION THE, UH, HUMAN SIGNS OUT THERE.

UH, THEY TOSS THOSE THINGS UP IN THE AIR MM-HMM.

, TEXAS WIND RIGHT OUT IN THE STREET.

AND I KNOW THAT, UH, SEVERAL OF OUR NEIGHBORING CITIES HAVE HAD ISSUES WITH THAT.

SO YEAH, THIS ONE, THIS ONE'S HARD.

UM, WHEN WE TALKED TO ROUND ROCK, UM, THEY JUST ADDED A PROVISION TO THEIR ORDINANCE PROHIBITING SUPER FLAGS AND WE CURRENTLY PROHIBIT 'EM.

SO WE, WE RECEIVE THAT FEEDBACK FROM THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY THAT IT'S SOMETHING THEY WANT TO HAVE THE OPTION TO USE.

SO IT'S KIND OF, IT'S A WEIRD SITUATION.

NOW, THE WAY THIS WOULD WORK, IT, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU COULD PUT ALL THESE SIGNS ALL OVER THE CITY AND IN THE RIGHT OF WAY IS FOR YOUR, YOUR PROPERTY.

SO THEY SHOULDN'T BE PUTTING IT ON HOA PROPERTY.

NOW IF THE HOA IS HAVING AN EVENT RIGHT.

THEY'RE HAVING A POOL PARTY OR WHATEVER HOAS DO, THEY COULD GET A PERMIT AND DO THESE ALTERNATIVE TYPES ON THEIR PROPERTY.

BUT Y'ALL DON'T HAVE TO APPROVE THIS EITHER.

THIS IS JUST AN IDEA TO TRY TO SOLVE A PROBLEM.

I I WAS JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THEM PLACING THEM, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE TURNING OUT YEAH.

INTO TRAFFIC.

AND IF THERE WAS A WAY TO WORD THE ORDINANCE WHERE THEY CAN'T PUT 'EM ON THOSE CORNERS, IT SAYS THEY CAN'T TODAY, BUT PEOPLE DO IT.

THAT'S LOCAL FLAGS AROUND.

UM, OKAY, SO MY ONLY QUESTION IS ON THE TIME, UH, ON THE, UM, EVENT SIGN PACKAGE, THE TIMEFRAME WOULD BE TWO WEEKS, FOUR TIMES PER CALENDAR YEAR.

SO IS THAT, UM, TWO WEEKS? UM, YOU KNOW, STRAIGHT OR YOU CAN USE THOSE 14 DAYS ANY TIME DURING THE CALENDAR YEAR.

SO THIS IS OUR CURRENT TIMEFRAME FOR BANNER SIGNS.

AND I'D HAVE TO LOOK INTO HOW IT'S APPLIED.

UM, I KNOW THAT THEY'VE DONE IT WHERE IT'S UM, FOUR WEEKS IN A ROW, LIKE THE USER TWO WEEKS BACK TO BACK.

, BUT I CAN SEE IF IT'S BEEN SPLIT UP BEFORE, I'M JUST, I DON'T HAVE THAT PART MEMORIZED, BUT I CAN FIGURE OUT OUT.

I I READ THAT AS IF THERE'S BASICALLY TWO WEEKS, FOUR TIMES A YEAR.

SO THAT WOULD GIVE THEM EIGHT TOTAL WEEKS.

EIGHT WEEKS, YES.

THAT THEY COULD PROMOTE, BUT THEY COULD ONLY BE FOR TWO WEEKS AND THEN THEY HAVE TO TAKE THE SIGN DOWN AND THEN WAIT FOR THE, THAT'S KIND OF A BRIEF SUMMARY.

I THINK THE ORDINANCE ACTUALLY GETS SOME DETAILS SAYING YOU COULD COMBINE 'EM TOGETHER OR YOU CAN SEPARATE IT OUT.

I DON'T THINK IT SAYS SEPARATE IT, BUT THAT'S WHAT I NEED TO CHECK.